AlphaZero vs Stockfish

[Maharadja]

I looked again the game in which AlphaZero sacrifices a knight on h6.
I don’t believe this is brute force calculation so it makes what AlphaZero did even more impressive!

So maybe it just decided to take a risk.

the opposite

[Milos]

I looked again the game in which AlphaZero sacrifices a knight on h6.
I don't believe this is brute force calculation so it makes what AlphaZero did even more impressive!

You don't seem to actually understand anything about that position.
It's weird that ppl are not capable even to do descent analysis of the game.
The sacrifice was not sound and Alpha0 won the game just because SF made couple of blunders in a row, first 21...Bf5 instead of 21...Kg7 and then even more crucial 22. ...Qa3 instead of 22...Qe6 and then Qf7.

[Dicaste]

Re1 isn't that hard for Alterego.

Code: Select all

FEN: rnb2r2/p3bpkp/1ppq3N/6p1/Q7/2P3P1/P4PBP/R1B2RK1 w - - 0 19

Alterego x64:
 8	00:00	 20k	0	+2,84	Ng4
 8	00:00	 22k	1.491k	+2,83	Ng4
 8	00:00	 29k	1.926k	+3,53	Ng4
 8	00:00	 39k	2.609k	+3,62	Ng4 Qd3 Re1 Be6 Re3 Qd6 Rb1 b5
 8	00:00	 58k	1.887k	+3,87	Ng4 Qe6 Qd4+ Kg8 Qe5 Qxe5 Nxe5 Bd6 Nc4 Be7
 9	00:00	 94k	1.518k	+3,38	Ng4 Qe6 Qd4+ f6 Ne3 Rd8 Qa4 Rd3 Qc2 Ba6
 9	00:00	 130k	1.669k	+3,34	Ng4 Qe6 Ne3 Rd8 Qc2 Bc5 Rb1 Ba6 Nf5+ Kg8
 10	00:00	 140k	1.506k	+3,44	Ng4
 10	00:00	 191k	1.753k	+3,59	Ng4 Qe6 Ne3 Rd8 Re1 Bc5 Qc2 Kg8 Rb1 Qg6
 10	00:00	 197k	1.573k	+3,59	Ng4 Qe6 Ne3 Rd8 Re1 Kg8 Rb1 Bc5 Qc2 Qg6
 11	00:00	 239k	1.710k	+3,02	Ng4 Qe6 Ne3 Rd8 Re1 Bc5 Qc2 Kg8 Rb1 Qf6 Nc4
 11	00:00	 240k	1.711k	+3,02	Ng4 Qe6 Ne3 Rd8 Re1 Bc5 Qc2 Kg8 Rb1 Qf6 Nc4
 12	00:00	 313k	1.542k	+3,12	Ng4
 12	00:00	 313k	1.542k	+3,12	Ng4
 12	00:00	 407k	1.626k	+2,24	Ng4 Na6 Ne3 b5 Qd4+ Qxd4 cxd4 Bf6 Bxc6 Bxd4 Bxa8 Bh3 Bd5 Bxa1 Re1
 12	00:00	 411k	1.643k	+2,24	Ng4 Na6 Ne3 b5 Qd4+ Qxd4 cxd4 Bf6 Bxc6 Bxd4 Bxa8 Bh3 Bd5 Bxa1 Re1
 13	00:00	 466k	1.657k	+2,34	Ng4
 13	00:00	 479k	1.611k	+2,44	Ng4
 13	00:00	 531k	1.619k	+3,04	Ng4
 13	00:00	 843k	1.686k	+2,96	Ng4 Qe6 Ne3 f5 f4 Bc5 Re1 g4 Qd1 Kg8 Qe2 Qg6 Rb1 Be6
 13	00:00	 1.010k	1.703k	+2,95	Ng4 f5 Rd1 Qe6 Qd4+ Kg8 Ne5 Bc5 Qc4 f4 Qxe6+ Bxe6 gxf4 gxf4 Bb2 Bf5 Rac1
 14	00:00	 1.150k	1.674k	+1,52	Ng4 f5 Rd1 Qe6 Qd4+ Kg8 Ne5 Bc5 Qc4 Qxc4 Nxc4 f4 Ne5 fxg3 hxg3 Rxf2 Rd8+ Rf8+ Rd4 Bxd4+ cxd4
 14	00:00	 1.150k	1.674k	+1,52	Ng4 f5 Rd1 Qe6 Qd4+ Kg8 Ne5 Bc5 Qc4 Qxc4 Nxc4 f4 Ne5 fxg3 hxg3 Rxf2 Rd8+ Rf8+ Rd4 Bxd4+ cxd4
 15	00:00	 1.235k	1.682k	+1,62	Ng4
 15	00:00	 1.252k	1.669k	+1,72	Ng4
 15	00:00	 1.337k	1.647k	+1,62	Ng4
 15	00:00	 1.520k	1.649k	+0,10	Ng4 f5 Rd1 Qe6 Qd4+ Kg8 Ne5 Bf6 f4 Nd7 Nxc6 Bxd4+ Nxd4 Qc4 Bxa8 Ba6 Bc6 Qxc3 Rb1
 15	00:01	 1.701k	1.676k	+0,10	Ng4 f5 Rd1 Qe6 Qd4+ Kg8 Ne5 Bf6 f4 Nd7 Nxc6 Bxd4+ Nxd4 Qc4 Bxa8 Ba6 Bc6 Qxc3 Rb1
 16	00:01	 2.309k	1.680k	+0,20	Ng4
 16	00:01	 2.320k	1.669k	+0,30	Ng4
 16	00:01	 2.419k	1.665k	+0,90	Ng4
 16	00:01	 2.640k	1.657k	+0,10	Ng4 f5 Rd1 Qe6 Qd4+ Kg8 Ne5 Bf6 f4 Nd7 Nxc6 Bxd4+ Nxd4 Qc4 Bxa8 Ba6 Bc6 Qxc3 Rb1
 15	00:01	 2.658k	1.652k	+2,39	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Re8 Bf4 Qg6 Rad1 Kf8 Qh6+ Qxh6 gxh6 Bc5 Rxe8+ Kxe8 Bf3
 16	00:01	 2.945k	1.669k	+1,70	Re1
 16	00:01	 3.070k	1.679k	+1,78	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Re8 Bf4 Qg6 Rad1 Kf8 Qh6+ Qxh6 gxh6 Bc5 Rxe8+ Kxe8 Bf3 Ke7 Kg2
 16	00:01	 3.143k	1.676k	+1,78	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Re8 Bf4 Qg6 Rad1 Kf8 Qh6+ Qxh6 gxh6 Bc5 Rxe8+ Kxe8 Bf3 Ke7 Kg2
 17	00:02	 3.363k	1.682k	+1,88	Re1
 17	00:02	 3.363k	1.682k	+1,88	Re1
 17	00:02	 3.489k	1.667k	+1,98	Re1
 17	00:02	 3.531k	1.674k	+1,98	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Re8 Bf4 Qg6 Rad1 Kf8 Qh6+ Qxh6 gxh6 Bc5 Rxe8+ Kxe8 Bg5 Be7 Bf4
 17	00:02	 3.831k	1.679k	+1,90	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Re8 Bf4 Qg6 Rad1 Kf8 Qh6+ Qxh6 gxh6 Bc5 Rxe8+ Kxe8 Be5 Ke7 Bf3
 18	00:02	 4.212k	1.675k	+2,08	Re1
 18	00:02	 4.212k	1.675k	+2,00	Re1
 18	00:02	 4.567k	1.680k	+2,38	Re1
 18	00:03	 5.150k	1.690k	+2,39	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Re8 Bf4 Qg6 Rad1 Kf8 Re5 Kg8 Qh6 Be6 Be4 Qxh6 gxh6
 18	00:03	 5.259k	1.691k	+2,70	Re1
 18	00:03	 5.302k	1.689k	+2,39	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Re8 Bf4 Qg6 Rad1 Kf8 Re5 Kg8 Qh6 Be6 Be4 Qxh6 gxh6
 19	00:05	 9.346k	1.749k	+1,58	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Kg8 Bf4 Qa3 Qh6 f6 g6 hxg6 Be4 Rf7 Bxf5 gxf5 Re6 Qxc3
 19	00:05	 9.346k	1.749k	+1,58	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Kg8 Bf4 Qa3 Qh6 f6 g6 hxg6 Be4 Rf7 Bxf5 gxf5 Re6 Qxc3
 20	00:07	 12.684k	1.738k	+2,38	Re1
 20	00:07	 12.694k	1.740k	+2,38	Re1
 20	00:07	 13.390k	1.735k	+2,50	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Kg8 Bf4 Qa3 Qh6 f6 Be4 Bxe4 Rxe4 fxg5 Bxg5 Bc5 Qe6+ Kh8 Qe5+ Kg8 Qe6+
 20	00:07	 13.406k	1.737k	+2,50	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Kg8 Bf4 Qa3 Qh6 f6 Be4 Bxe4 Rxe4 fxg5 Bxg5 Bc5 Qe6+ Kh8 Qe5+ Kg8 Qe6+
 21	00:08	 14.566k	1.733k	+2,60	Re1
 21	00:08	 14.573k	1.730k	+2,60	Re1
 21	00:10	 18.970k	1.762k	+1,98	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Kg8 Bf4 Qc5 Qh6 Nd7 g4 Bg6 Rad1 Rad8 Bxc6 Qxc6 Rxe7 Nc5 Rd4 Rc8
 21	00:10	 19.209k	1.764k	+1,98	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Kg8 Bf4 Qc5 Qh6 Nd7 g4 Bg6 Rad1 Rad8 Bxc6 Qxc6 Rxe7 Nc5 Rd4 Rc8
 22	00:16	 30.459k	1.802k	+2,88	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Re8 Bf4 Qg6 Rad1 Kf8 g4 Bc2 Rd2 Bc5 Qh6+ Qxh6 Rxe8+ Kxe8 gxh6 Bg6 Re2+ Kd7 Be4 Bxe4 Rxe4
 22	00:17	 31.963k	1.801k	+2,88	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Re8 Bf4 Qg6 Rad1 Kf8 g4 Bc2 Rd2 Bc5 Qh6+ Qxh6 Rxe8+ Kxe8 gxh6 Bg6 Re2+ Kd7 Be4 Bxe4 Rxe4
 23	00:23	 42.435k	1.797k	+2,13	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Re8 Bf4 Qg6 Rad1 Kf8 g4 Bc2 Rd2 Bc5 Qh6+ Qxh6 Rxe8+ Kxe8 gxh6 Bg6 Bc7 a5 Rd8+ Ke7 a4 f6
 23	00:23	 42.435k	1.797k	+1,79	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Re8 Bf4 Qg6 g4 Bc2 Qh6+ Kg8 Qxg6+ fxg6 Rac1 Bd3 Rcd1 Bc4 Rd4 Bxa2 c4 Na6 Bxc6 Bc5 Bd5+ Kh8
 24	00:36	 63.209k	1.747k	+1,09	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Re8 Bf4 Qg6 g4 Bc2 Qh6+ Kg8 Qxg6+ fxg6 Rac1 Bd3 Rcd1 Bc4 a4 Kg7 Rd4 Bb3 Be5+ Kf7 Rb1 Be6
 24	00:38	 67.261k	1.751k	+0,57	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Re8 Bf4 Qg6 g4 Bc2 Qh6+ Kg8 Bd6 Qxd6 Qxd6 Bxd6 Rxe8+ Kg7 Rc1 Bg6 Rd1 Bf4 Rdd8 Bxg5 Rd6 Bf4
 25	00:41	 72.960k	1.755k	+0,67	Re1
 25	00:42	 74.098k	1.754k	+0,77	Re1
 25	00:54	 93.022k	1.700k	+2,69	Re1
 25	01:03	 108.800k	1.709k	+2,50	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 f6 Qh4 fxg5 Bxg5 Bxg5 Qxg5+ Kh8 Rad1 Qc5 Qxc5 bxc5 Re7 Bf5 Rde1 Kg8 f4 Rf7 Re8+ Rf8 R8e7
 25	01:04	 109.457k	1.709k	+2,50	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 f6 Qh4 fxg5 Bxg5 Bxg5 Qxg5+ Kh8 Rad1 Qc5 Qxc5 bxc5 Re7 Bf5 Rde1 Kg8 f4 Rf7 Re8+ Rf8 R8e7

[Dicaste]

Qc7! found instantly.

Code: Select all

FEN: 3rr1k1/1b2nnp1/1p3p2/pP1p1P1p/P1pP2P1/q1N1P1QP/2R2RB1/5NK1 w - h6 0 35

Alterego x64:
 8	00:00	 26k	1.598k	+3,40	Qc7
 8	00:00	 26k	1.598k	+3,40	Qc7
 8	00:00	 29k	1.787k	+4,10	Qc7
 8	00:00	 31k	1.911k	+4,22	Qc7 Rb8 Qxb6 hxg4 hxg4 Ng5 Qc7 Rec8 Qd7
 8	00:00	 31k	1.912k	+4,22	Qc7 Rb8 Qxb6 hxg4 hxg4 Ng5 Qc7 Rec8 Qd7
 9	00:00	 46k	2.879k	+4,32	Qc7
 9	00:00	 49k	1.532k	+4,42	Qc7
 9	00:00	 54k	1.695k	+4,62	Qc7
 9	00:00	 63k	1.981k	+4,85	Qc7 Rb8 Qxb6 hxg4 hxg4 Qa1 Qc7 Nh6 Bf3 Nf7
 9	00:00	 63k	1.981k	+4,85	Qc7 Rb8 Qxb6 hxg4 hxg4 Qa1 Qc7 Nh6 Bf3 Nf7
 10	00:00	 79k	1.686k	+4,30	Qc7 Rb8 Qxb6 hxg4 hxg4 Qa1 Qc7 Kh7 Rfe2 Ng5 b6 Kg8
 10	00:00	 79k	1.686k	+4,30	Qc7 Rb8 Qxb6 hxg4 hxg4 Qa1 Qc7 Kh7 Rfe2 Ng5 b6 Kg8
 11	00:00	 93k	1.480k	+4,40	Qc7
 11	00:00	 93k	1.480k	+4,40	Qc7
 11	00:00	 187k	1.497k	+5,10	Qc7
 11	00:00	 284k	1.510k	+5,44	Qc7 Rb8 Qxb6 Qb3 Qc7 h4 Nh2 Ng5 Nf3 Ba8 Nxg5 fxg5
 11	00:00	 284k	1.510k	+5,44	Qc7 Rb8 Qxb6 Qb3 Qc7 h4 Nh2 Ng5 Nf3 Ba8 Nxg5 fxg5
 12	00:00	 399k	1.598k	+4,82	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Qa1 Qxa5 Nh6 Bf3 hxg4 hxg4 Nhxf5 gxf5 Bxf5 Rcd2 Ra8 Qb4
 12	00:00	 399k	1.598k	+4,82	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Qa1 Qxa5 Nh6 Bf3 hxg4 hxg4 Nhxf5 gxf5 Bxf5 Rcd2 Ra8 Qb4
 13	00:00	 441k	1.564k	+4,92	Qc7
 13	00:00	 441k	1.564k	+4,92	Qc7
 13	00:00	 590k	1.572k	+5,62	Qc7
 13	00:00	 627k	1.541k	+5,37	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Qa1 Qxa5 Nh6 Bf3 Nf7 Qc7 Ng5 Bg2 Rd7 Qc5
 13	00:00	 627k	1.541k	+5,37	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Qa1 Qxa5 Nh6 Bf3 Nf7 Qc7 Ng5 Bg2 Rd7 Qc5
 14	00:00	 679k	1.551k	+5,47	Qc7
 14	00:00	 679k	1.551k	+5,47	Qc7
 14	00:00	 714k	1.572k	+5,57	Qc7
 14	00:00	 972k	1.593k	+5,39	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Nh6 Nh2 Nhxf5 gxf5 Bxf5 Rxf5 Nxf5 Nf1 Nh4 Bxd5+ Rxd5 Nxd5 Nf3+ Kf2 Qxa4 Rc1 Ng5 Qc6 Qa2+ Kg3 Ne4+ Kf4
 14	00:00	 972k	1.593k	+5,39	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Nh6 Nh2 Nhxf5 gxf5 Bxf5 Rxf5 Nxf5 Nf1 Nh4 Bxd5+ Rxd5 Nxd5 Nf3+ Kf2 Qxa4 Rc1 Ng5 Qc6 Qa2+ Kg3 Ne4+ Kf4
 15	00:01	 1.725k	1.647k	+6,19	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Nh6 Nh2 Nhxf5 gxf5 Bxf5 Rxf5 Nxf5 Nf1 Nh4 Bxd5+ Rxd5 Nxd5 Nf3+ Kh1 Qd3 Rf2 Qe4 Nc7 Nxd4+ Kg1 Qg6+ Kh2
 15	00:01	 1.725k	1.648k	+6,19	Qc7
 15	00:01	 1.729k	1.652k	+6,19	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Nh6 Nh2 Nhxf5 gxf5 Bxf5 Rxf5 Nxf5 Nf1 Nh4 Bxd5+ Rxd5 Nxd5 Nf3+ Kh1 Qd3 Rf2 Qe4 Nc7 Nxd4+ Kg1 Qg6+ Kh2
 16	00:01	 2.644k	1.692k	+6,29	Qc7
 16	00:01	 2.772k	1.689k	+6,39	Qc7
 16	00:02	 3.592k	1.690k	+6,59	Qc7
 16	00:02	 3.998k	1.694k	+6,31	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Qa1 Qxa5 Ng5 Rb2 hxg4 hxg4 Bb7 Qc7 Bc8 b6 Rd7 Qc5 Bb7 a5
 16	00:02	 4.040k	1.689k	+6,08	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Qa1 Qxa5 Ng5 Rb2 hxg4 hxg4 Bb7 Qc7 Bc8 b6 Rd7 Qb8 Nc6 Qa8
 17	00:02	 4.642k	1.660k	+5,80	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Qa1 Qxa5 Nh6 Bf3 Nf7 Qa7 Ng5 Bg2 Rd7 Qc5 hxg4 hxg4 Bb7 b6 Rc8
 17	00:02	 4.642k	1.660k	+5,80	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Qa1 Qxa5 Nh6 Bf3 Nf7 Qa7 Ng5 Bg2 Rd7 Qc5 hxg4 hxg4 Bb7 b6 Rc8
 18	00:03	 5.113k	1.644k	+5,90	Qc7
 18	00:03	 5.113k	1.644k	+5,90	Qc7
 18	00:03	 5.378k	1.631k	+5,52	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Qa1 Qxa5 Nh6 Bf3 Nf7 Qc7 Rd7 Qc5 Bb7 b6 Ng5 Bg2 Rc8 Qb5 Bc6
 18	00:03	 5.399k	1.630k	+5,52	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Qa1 Qxa5 Nh6 Bf3 Nf7 Qc7 Rd7 Qc5 Bb7 b6 Ng5 Bg2 Rc8 Qb5 Bc6
 19	00:03	 6.252k	1.633k	+5,62	Qc7
 19	00:04	 6.745k	1.635k	+5,62	Qc7
 19	00:05	 8.563k	1.641k	+6,32	Qc7
 19	00:05	 9.766k	1.653k	+6,41	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Qa1 Qxa5 Nh6 Bf3 Nf7 Rb2 hxg4 hxg4 Bb7 Qc7 Ng5 Bg2 Bc8 Rbc2 Rd7 Qb8 Rdd8
 19	00:06	 11.509k	1.666k	+6,41	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Qa1 Qxa5 Nh6 Bf3 Nf7 Rb2 hxg4 hxg4 Ng5 Bg2 Bb7 Qc7 Bc8 Rbc2 Rd7 Qb8 Rdd8
 20	00:07	 12.564k	1.661k	+6,08	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Qa1 Qxa5 Nh6 Bf3 Nf7 Rb2 hxg4 hxg4 Bb7 Qc7 Ng5 Bg2 Bc8 b6 Rd7 Qb8 Nc6 Qa8
 20	00:07	 12.564k	1.661k	+6,08	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Qa1 Qxa5 Nh6 Bf3 Nf7 Rb2 hxg4 hxg4 Bb7 Qc7 Ng5 Bg2 Bc8 b6 Rd7 Qb8 Nc6 Qa8
 21	00:09	 15.517k	1.647k	+6,18	Qc7
 21	00:09	 15.517k	1.647k	+6,18	Qc7
 21	00:13	 21.857k	1.644k	+6,48	Qc7
 21	00:14	 24.251k	1.649k	+5,78	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Nh6 Bf3 Qd6 Qxd6 Rxd6 Ng3 hxg4 hxg4 Nf7 Nh5 Ng5 Bg2 Bb7 Nf4 Rb6 Ncxd5 Nh3+ Bxh3 Nxd5 Rxc4 Nxe3
 21	00:14	 24.701k	1.654k	+5,78	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Nh6 Bf3 Qd6 Qxd6 Rxd6 Ng3 hxg4 hxg4 Nf7 Nh5 Ng5 Bg2 Bb7 Nf4 Rb6 Ncxd5 Nh3+ Bxh3 Nxd5 Rxc4 Nxe3
 22	00:17	 29.448k	1.671k	+5,98	Qc7
 22	00:17	 29.475k	1.671k	+6,18	Qc7
 22	00:18	 30.188k	1.671k	+6,18	Qc7
 22	00:19	 32.109k	1.680k	+6,39	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Nh6 Bf3 Qd6 Qa7 Nf7 Bg2 Ng5 Qc5 h4 b6 Bb7 Nb5 Qd7 Nc7 Qxa4 Nxe8 Rxe8 Qc7 Qc6 Kh2
 22	00:19	 32.474k	1.681k	+6,39	Qc7 Bc8 Qxb6 Nh6 Bf3 Qd6 Qa7 Nf7 Bg2 Ng5 Qc5 h4 b6 Bb7 Nb5 Qd7 Nc7 Qxa4 Nxe8 Rxe8 Qc7 Qc6 Kh2
 23	00:27	 47.042k	1.704k	+6,09	Qc7 Qd6 Qxb7 Rb8 Qa6 Ra8 Nxd5 Nxd5 Qb7 Rad8 Rxc4 Re7 Qxd5 Qxd5 Bxd5 Rxd5 Rc8+ Kh7 gxh5 Nh6 Rf4 Rxf5 Rxf5 Nxf5 Rc6 Nxe3 Nxe3 Rxe3 Rxb6 Rxh3 Rb7 Rxh5 Kf2
 23	00:27	 47.068k	1.704k	+6,09	Qc7 Qd6 Qxb7 Rb8 Qa6 Ra8 Nxd5 Nxd5 Qb7 Rad8 Rxc4 Re7 Qxd5 Qxd5 Bxd5 Rxd5 Rc8+ Kh7 gxh5 Nh6 Rf4 Rxf5 Rxf5 Nxf5 Rc6 Nxe3 Nxe3 Rxe3 Rxb6 Rxh3 Rb7 Rxh5 Kf2
 24	00:30	 51.892k	1.702k	+6,19	Qc7
 24	00:30	 51.892k	1.702k	+6,19	Qc7
 24	00:34	 57.727k	1.696k	+6,29	Qc7
 24	00:35	 60.040k	1.696k	+6,37	Qc7 Qd6 Qxb7 Rb8 Qa6 Ra8 Nxd5 Nxd5 Qb7 Rad8 Rxc4 Re7 Qxd5 Qxd5 Bxd5 Rxd5 Rc8+ Kh7 gxh5 Nh6 Rf4 Rxf5 Rxf5 Nxf5 Rc6 Nxe3 Nxe3 Rxe3 Rxb6 Rg3+ Kf2 Rxh3 Ra6 Rxh5 Rxa5

[Dicaste]

like everytime there is a "point of no return" and as far as i can tell 27...bxe4!?(instead of 27...bg6? ) was the last chance to head towards a draw imo:
[d]rn3r2/p3b1kp/2p5/1p3bp1/4B3/q1P1B1P1/P4P2/3RR1KQ b
bm 27...bxe4
...at least my efforts were leading nowhere.

my mainline:
1. Qxe4 Kg8 2. Bd4 Rf7 3. Qg4 Na6 4. Re5 Qd6 5. Re6 Qd5 6. Rde1 Nc7 7. R1e5 Qxe6 8. Rxe6 Nxe6 9. Qxe6 c5 10. Be3 Rd8 11. Qa6 b4 12. cxb4 cxb4 13. Qxa7 Rd6...its a draw imo

Alterego liked Bg6.

Code: Select all

FEN: rn3r2/p3b1kp/2p5/1p3bp1/4B3/q1P1B1P1/P4P2/3RR1KQ b - - 0 1

Alterego x64:
 8	00:00	 75k	962k	-2,53	Bc5
 8	00:00	 75k	962k	-2,53	Bc5
 8	00:00	 78k	999k	-3,22	Bc5
 8	00:00	 79k	1.016k	-2,88	Bc5 Bxf5 Rxf5 Qe4 Bxe3 Rxe3 Qf8 Qd4+ Kg8 Re5 Rxe5 Qxe5
 8	00:00	 79k	1.016k	-2,88	Bc5 Bxf5 Rxf5 Qe4 Bxe3 Rxe3 Qf8 Qd4+ Kg8 Re5 Rxe5 Qxe5
 9	00:00	 136k	1.235k	-1,81	Bc5 Bxf5 Rxf5 Qe4 Rf6 Qe8 Bxe3 Rxe3 Qxa2 Re7+ Kh6 f4 gxf4
 9	00:00	 136k	1.235k	-1,81	Bc5 Bxf5 Rxf5 Qe4 Rf6 Qe8 Bxe3 Rxe3 Qxa2 Re7+ Kh6 f4 gxf4
 10	00:00	 204k	1.302k	-0,29	Bc5 Bxf5 Rxf5 Qe4 Rf6 Qe5 Bxe3 Rxe3 Kg6 Qe8+ Kh6 Qe7 Qxe7 Rxe7
 10	00:00	 204k	1.302k	-0,29	Bc5 Bxf5 Rxf5 Qe4 Rf6 Qe5 Bxe3 Rxe3 Kg6 Qe8+ Kh6 Qe7 Qxe7 Rxe7
 10	00:00	 256k	1.359k	-2,13	Bxe4 Bd4+ Bf6 Qxe4 Nd7 Qxc6 Nb6 Qxb5 Bxd4 Rxd4 h6 Qe5+ Kh7
 10	00:00	 256k	1.359k	-2,13	Bxe4 Bd4+ Bf6 Qxe4 Nd7 Qxc6 Nb6 Qxb5 Bxd4 Rxd4 h6 Qe5+ Kh7
 11	00:00	 275k	1.355k	-2,24	Bxe4
 11	00:00	 275k	1.355k	-2,24	Bxe4
 11	00:00	 287k	1.413k	-2,95	Bxe4
 11	00:00	 300k	1.371k	-2,46	Bxe4 Bd4+ Bf6 Qxe4 Nd7 Qxc6 Nb6 Bxf6+ Rxf6 Qc7+ Kg6 Re7 Qxa2 Rg7+ Kh5 Rxh7+ Kg4
 11	00:00	 331k	1.408k	-2,46	Bxe4 Bd4+ Bf6 Qxe4 Nd7 Qxc6 Nb6 Bxf6+ Rxf6 Qc7+ Kg6 Re7 Qxa2 Rg7+ Kh5 Rxh7+ Kg4
 12	00:00	 494k	1.507k	-1,00	Bxe4 Bd4+ Bf6 Qxe4 Nd7 Qxc6 Nb6 Qxb5 Kh8 Re6 Bxd4 cxd4 Qf3 Qe5+ Kg8 Qxg5+ Kh8
 12	00:00	 494k	1.507k	-1,00	Bxe4 Bd4+ Bf6 Qxe4 Nd7 Qxc6 Nb6 Qxb5 Kh8 Re6 Bxd4 cxd4 Qf3 Qe5+ Kg8 Qxg5+ Kh8
 13	00:00	 645k	1.585k	-1,10	Bxe4
 13	00:00	 650k	1.598k	-1,20	Bxe4
 13	00:00	 655k	1.553k	-1,40	Bxe4
 12	00:00	 661k	1.568k	-3,34	Bg6 Bxg6 hxg6 Bd4+ Bf6 Qe4 a5 Bxf6+ Rxf6 Qe7+ Qxe7 Rxe7+ Rf7 Re8 Rf8 Re7+ Kf6 Rh7 b4 Rd6+ Ke5
 13	00:00	 670k	1.587k	-1,80	Bxe4
 13	00:00	 725k	1.600k	-0,98	Bxe4 Bd4+ Bf6 Qxe4 a5 Bxf6+ Rxf6 Qe5 h6 Rd8 Qxa2 f4 gxf4 gxf4 a4 Kh1 Qf7
 13	00:00	 844k	1.586k	-0,71	Bxe4 Bd4+ Bf6 Qxe4 a5 Bxf6+ Rxf6 Qe5 h6 Rd8 Qxa2 f4 gxf4 gxf4 a4 Kh1 Qf7 f5
 14	00:00	 961k	1.576k	-0,60	Bxe4 Bd4+ Bf6 Qxe4 a5 Bxf6+ Rxf6 Qe5 h6 Rd8 Qxa2 f4 gxf4 gxf4 a4 Kh1 Qf7 Red1
 14	00:00	 961k	1.576k	-0,60	Bxe4 Bd4+ Bf6 Qxe4 a5 Bxf6+ Rxf6 Qe5 h6 Rd8 Qxa2 f4 gxf4 gxf4 a4 Kh1 Qf7 Red1
 15	00:00	 1.049k	1.597k	-0,70	Bxe4
 15	00:00	 1.049k	1.597k	-0,70	Bxe4
 15	00:00	 1.229k	1.639k	-2,20	Bxe4
 15	00:00	 1.267k	1.654k	-2,23	Bxe4 Bd4+ Bf6 Qxe4 a5 Bxf6+ Rxf6 Qe5 h6 Rd8 Qxa2 f4 gxf4 gxf4 a4 Kh1 Qf7 Rg1+ Kh7 Rg4
 15	00:00	 1.267k	1.654k	-2,23	Bxe4 Bd4+ Bf6 Qxe4 a5 Bxf6+ Rxf6 Qe5 h6 Rd8 Qxa2 f4 gxf4 gxf4 a4 Kh1 Qf7 Rg1+ Kh7 Rg4
 16	00:01	 2.552k	1.795k	-1,45	Bxe4 Bd4+ Bf6 Qxe4 Qd6 Bxf6+ Qxf6 Qe5 Qxe5 Rxe5 Rf3 Rxg5+ Kf6 Rc5 Rf5 Rd6+ Ke7 Rxf5 Kxd6 Rh5 Na6 Rxh7 Kd5
 16	00:01	 2.681k	1.805k	-1,98	Bxe4 Bd4+ Bf6 Qxe4 Qd6 Qg4 Bxd4 Rxd4 Qc5 Qe6 Qf5 Qxf5 Rxf5 Rd6 Kf7 Rde6 Rf3 Re7+ Kg6 R1e6+ Kf5
 17	00:01	 2.783k	1.799k	-1,55	Bxe4
 17	00:01	 3.207k	1.799k	-0,95	Bxe4 Bd4+ Bf6 Qxe4 Qd6 Qg4 Bxd4 Rxd4 Qc5 Re6 Kg8 Qe4 Qf5 Qxf5 Rxf5 Rd8+ Rf8 Rdd6 Rf3 Re7 Na6 Rxc6
 17	00:01	 3.298k	1.804k	-0,95	Bxe4 Bd4+ Bf6 Qxe4 Qd6 Qg4 Bxd4 Rxd4 Qc5 Re6 Kg8 Qe4 Qf5 Qxf5 Rxf5 Rd8+ Rf8 Rdd6 Rf3 Re7 Na6 Rxc6
 18	00:01	 3.587k	1.836k	-1,05	Bxe4
 18	00:02	 3.927k	1.821k	-1,05	Bxe4
 18	00:02	 4.082k	1.826k	-0,71	Bxe4 Bd4+ Bf6 Qxe4 Qd6 Qg4 Bxd4 Rxd4 Qc5 Re6 Kg8 Qe4 Qf5 Qxf5 Rxf5 Rd8+ Rf8 Rdd6 Rf3 Re7 Na6 Rdd7 Rxc3 Rxh7
 18	00:02	 4.082k	1.826k	-0,71	Bxe4 Bd4+ Bf6 Qxe4 Qd6 Qg4 Bxd4 Rxd4 Qc5 Re6 Kg8 Qe4 Qf5 Qxf5 Rxf5 Rd8+ Rf8 Rdd6 Rf3 Re7 Na6 Rdd7 Rxc3 Rxh7
 19	00:05	 9.614k	1.911k	 0,00	Bxe4 Qxe4 Kg8 Qe6+ Rf7 Qc8+ Rf8 Qe6+
 19	00:05	 9.614k	1.911k	 0,00	Bxe4 Qxe4 Kg8 Qe6+ Rf7 Qc8+ Rf8 Qe6+
 20	00:10	 19.893k	1.974k	 0,00	Bg6 Bxg6 hxg6 Bc1 Qc5 Be3 Qa3
 21	00:12	 24.607k	1.969k	 0,00	Bg6 Bxg6 hxg6 Bc1 Qc5 Be3 Qa3
 22	00:15	 29.727k	1.980k	 0,00	Bg6 Bxg6 hxg6 Bc1 Qc5 Be3 Qa3
 23	00:20	 40.009k	1.962k	 0,00	Bg6 Bxg6 hxg6 Bc1 Qc5 Be3 Qa3
 22	00:21	 41.757k	1.965k	 0,00	Bg6 Bxg6 hxg6 Bc1 Qc5 Be3 Qa3
 23	00:21	 42.351k	1.967k	 0,00	Bg6 Bxg6 hxg6 Bc1 Qc5 Be3 Qa3
 24	00:28	 55.911k	1.993k	 0,00	Bg6 Bxg6 hxg6 Bc1 Qc5 Be3 Qa3
 24	00:28	 55.911k	1.993k	 0,00	Bg6 Bxg6 hxg6 Bc1 Qc5 Be3 Qa3

[shrapnel]

The sacrifice was not sound and Alpha0 won the game just because SF made couple of blunders in a row, first 21...Bf5 instead of 21...Kg7 and then even more crucial 22. ...Qa3 instead of 22...Qe6 and then Qf7.

WOW ! Now I've seen everything.
Milos has discovered that both AlphaZero and Stockfish made mistakes !!
I think AlphaZero played against the wrong opponent; it should have been Milos.
TOOOO Good !

[Milos]

Re1 isn't that hard for Alterego.

Code: Select all

FEN: rnb2r2/p3bpkp/1ppq3N/6p1/Q7/2P3P1/P4PBP/R1B2RK1 w - - 0 19
 25	01:04	 109.457k	1.709k	+2,50	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 f6 Qh4 fxg5 Bxg5 Bxg5 Qxg5+ Kh8 Rad1 Qc5 Qxc5 bxc5 Re7 Bf5 Rde1 Kg8 f4 Rf7 Re8+ Rf8 R8e7

The PVs that your engine shows have no touch with reality (i.e. totally lost for white with high positive score for white in the same time).
In other words, both score and PVs are totally imaginary despite finding "the right" moves.

[Dicaste]

It would decrease in time but i stopped analyze.

[Dicaste]

Re1 isn't that hard for Alterego.

Code: Select all

FEN: rnb2r2/p3bpkp/1ppq3N/6p1/Q7/2P3P1/P4PBP/R1B2RK1 w - - 0 19
 25	01:04	 109.457k	1.709k	+2,50	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 f6 Qh4 fxg5 Bxg5 Bxg5 Qxg5+ Kh8 Rad1 Qc5 Qxc5 bxc5 Re7 Bf5 Rde1 Kg8 f4 Rf7 Re8+ Rf8 R8e7

The PVs that your engine shows have no touch with reality (i.e. totally lost for white with high positive score for white in the same time).
In other words, both score and PVs are totally imaginary despite finding "the right" moves.

Analyzed again.

Code: Select all

FEN: rnb2r2/p3bpkp/1ppq3N/6p1/Q7/2P3P1/P4PBP/R1B2RK1 w - - 0 19

Alterego x64:
 8	00:00	 36k	2.242k	+1,57	Ng4
 8	00:00	 36k	2.242k	+1,57	Ng4
 8	00:00	 47k	1.479k	+1,64	Ng4 Nd7 Qxc6 Ba6 Qxd6 Bxd6 Rd1 Rae8 Bxg5
 8	00:00	 48k	1.512k	+1,64	Ng4 Nd7 Qxc6 Ba6 Qxd6 Bxd6 Rd1 Rae8 Bxg5
 9	00:00	 104k	1.644k	+1,20	Ng4 Nd7 Qxc6 Nc5 Qxd6 Bxd6 Rd1 Bxg4 Rxd6 Rad8
 9	00:00	 104k	1.647k	+1,20	Ng4 Nd7 Qxc6 Nc5 Qxd6 Bxd6 Rd1 Bxg4 Rxd6 Rad8
 10	00:00	 164k	1.487k	+1,02	Ng4 Nd7 Qxc6 Nc5 Ne3 Qxc6 Bxc6 Bh3 Nd5 Bd6 Bxg5 Rae8
 10	00:00	 342k	1.564k	+1,28	Ng4 Na6 Re1 Nc5 Qd4+ f6 h3 Bxg4 hxg4 Rae8 Rxe7+ Qxe7 Bxg5 Qe5
 11	00:00	 375k	1.501k	+1,38	Ng4
 11	00:00	 386k	1.452k	+1,48	Ng4
 11	00:00	 392k	1.390k	+1,46	Ng4 Na6 Re1 Nc5 Qd4+ f6 h3 Bxg4 hxg4 Rfe8 Ba3 Rad8 Qc4
 12	00:00	 466k	1.355k	+1,56	Ng4
 12	00:00	 495k	1.376k	+1,66	Ng4
 11	00:00	 499k	1.386k	+1,71	Ng4 Nd7 Qd4+ Nf6 Ne5 Ba6 Bxg5 Qxd4 cxd4 h6 Bh4 Nd5 Bxe7 Nxe7
 12	00:00	 756k	1.466k	+0,59	Ng4 Na6 Re1 Nc5 Qd4+ f6 Bb2 Be6 Qxd6 Bxd6 Rad1 Rad8 Rxe6 Nxe6 Bxc6
 12	00:00	 760k	1.473k	+0,96	Ng4 Na6 Re1 Nc5 Qd4+ f6 Ba3 Bf5 h4 Rad8 hxg5 Qc7 Qe3
 13	00:00	 800k	1.463k	+0,69	Ng4
 13	00:00	 804k	1.429k	+0,79	Ng4
 13	00:00	 865k	1.418k	+1,16	Ng4
 13	00:00	 887k	1.383k	+0,87	Ng4 Na6 Re1 Nc5 Qd4+ f6 Ba3 Bf5 Ne3 Be6 Nc4 Qxd4 cxd4 Rae8 dxc5 Bxc4 Bxc6 bxc5
 13	00:00	 951k	1.383k	+0,87	Ng4 Na6 Re1 Nc5 Qd4+ f6 Ba3 Bf5 Ne3 Be6 Nc4 Qxd4 cxd4 Rae8 dxc5 Bxc4 Bxc6 bxc5
 14	00:00	 1.077k	1.324k	+0,87	Ng4 Na6 Re1 Nc5 Qd4+ f6 Ba3 Bf5 Ne3 Be6 Nc4 Qxd4 cxd4 Rae8 dxc5 Bxc4 Bxc6 bxc5
 14	00:00	 1.077k	1.324k	+0,87	Ng4 Na6 Re1 Nc5 Qd4+ f6 Ba3 Bf5 Ne3 Be6 Nc4 Qxd4 cxd4 Rae8 dxc5 Bxc4 Bxc6 bxc5
 15	00:00	 1.260k	1.366k	+0,97	Ng4
 15	00:00	 1.260k	1.366k	+0,97	Ng4
 15	00:01	 1.494k	1.385k	+1,27	Ng4
 15	00:01	 1.760k	1.444k	+0,80	Ng4 Na6 Re1 Nc5 Qd4+ f6 Ba3 Bf5 Ne3 Be6 Qd1 Qxd1 Raxd1 Rad8 Nf5+ Kf7 Nxe7 Rxd1 Rxd1 Kxe7 Bxc6
 15	00:01	 2.319k	1.499k	+1,67	Ng4
 16	00:01	 2.413k	1.514k	+0,90	Ng4
 16	00:01	 2.608k	1.531k	+1,00	Ng4
 15	00:01	 2.763k	1.551k	+0,71	Ng4 Na6 Re1 Nc5 Qd4+ f6 Ba3 Bf5 h4 Rae8 Ne3 Be6 Rad1 Rd8 Qxd6 Bxd6 Bxc6
 16	00:01	 2.936k	1.566k	+0,81	Ng4
 16	00:02	 3.164k	1.582k	+0,84	Ng4 Na6 Re1 Nc5 Qd4+ f6 Ba3 Bf5 h4 Rae8 Ne3 Be6 Rad1 Rd8 hxg5 Qe5 Bxc5 Bxc5
 16	00:02	 3.164k	1.582k	+0,84	Ng4 Na6 Re1 Nc5 Qd4+ f6 Ba3 Bf5 h4 Rae8 Ne3 Be6 Rad1 Rd8 hxg5 Qe5 Bxc5 Bxc5
 17	00:02	 4.029k	1.621k	+0,94	Ng4
 17	00:02	 4.040k	1.626k	+0,94	Ng4
 17	00:02	 4.171k	1.627k	+1,04	Ng4
 17	00:02	 4.507k	1.639k	+0,85	Ng4 Na6 Re1 Nc5 Qd4+ f6 Ba3 Bf5 Bxc6 Rad8 Bd5 Qxd5 Ne3 Ne6 Qxd5 Rxd5 Bxe7 Be4 Nxd5 Bxd5
 17	00:02	 4.509k	1.640k	+0,85	Ng4 Na6 Re1 Nc5 Qd4+ f6 Ba3 Bf5 Bxc6 Rad8 Bd5 Qxd5 Ne3 Ne6 Qxd5 Rxd5 Bxe7 Be4 Nxd5 Bxd5
 18	00:03	 5.374k	1.646k	+0,95	Ng4
 18	00:03	 5.416k	1.643k	+0,95	Ng4
 18	00:03	 5.590k	1.649k	+1,05	Ng4
 18	00:06	 10.993k	1.708k	+1,25	Re1
 18	00:07	 13.253k	1.720k	+1,65	Re1
 18	00:07	 13.297k	1.719k	+1,59	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Kg8 Bf4 Qa3 Rad1 a5 Qh6 f6 g6 hxg6 Be4 Bxe4 Rxe4
 18	00:07	 13.344k	1.722k	+1,43	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Kg8 Bf4 Qa3 Qh6 Nd7 g4 Bg6 Rad1 Rad8 Bxc6 Bc5 Bxd7 Qxc3
 19	00:11	 19.585k	1.748k	+0,67	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Kg8 Bf4 Qa3 Rad1 a5 Qh6 f6 Rxe7 Qxe7 Rd6 Qe1+ Bf1 fxg5 Bxg5 Bg6
 19	00:11	 19.937k	1.748k	+0,67	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Kg8 Bf4 Qa3 Rad1 a5 Qh6 f6 Rxe7 Qxe7 Rd6 Qe1+ Bf1 fxg5 Bxg5 Bg6
 20	00:12	 21.289k	1.740k	+0,77	Re1
 20	00:12	 21.289k	1.740k	+0,77	Re1
 20	00:13	 22.925k	1.734k	+1,07	Re1
 20	00:14	 25.192k	1.734k	+1,37	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Kg8 Qh4 Bf5 Bf4 Qa3 Qh6 f6 Rad1 a5 gxf6 Rxf6 Qg5+ Bg6 Rxe7 Qxe7 Be5 Kf7 f4
 20	00:14	 25.193k	1.734k	+1,37	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Bf5 Qh4 Kg8 Bf4 Qa3 Rad1 a5 Qh6 f6 gxf6 Rxf6 Qg5+ Bg6 Rxe7 Qxe7 Be5 Kf7 f4
 21	00:16	 28.569k	1.736k	+1,47	Re1
 21	00:16	 28.571k	1.736k	+1,47	Re1
 21	00:17	 30.939k	1.734k	+1,57	Re1
 21	00:20	 35.147k	1.733k	+1,73	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Kg8 Qh4 Bf5 Bf4 Qa3 Rad1 a5 Qh6 f6 gxf6 Rxf6 Qg5+ Bg6 Rxe7 Qxe7 Be5 Kf7 f4 Kg7
 21	00:20	 35.159k	1.734k	+1,73	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 Kg8 Qh4 Bf5 Bf4 Qa3 Rad1 a5 Qh6 f6 gxf6 Rxf6 Qg5+ Bg6 Rxe7 Qxe7 Be5 Kf7 f4 Kg7
 22	00:38	 65.776k	1.717k	+0,72	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 f6 Bf4 Qc5 Rad1 fxg5 Be5+ Bf6 Bd6 Qxc3 Bb4 Qb2 Bxf8+ Kxf8 Bxc6 b5 Qe4 Nxc6 Qxc6 Kg7 Qxa8 Qc3 Qxa7+ Kg8
 22	00:38	 65.776k	1.717k	+0,65	Re1 Kxh6 h4 Kg7 hxg5 f6 Bf4 Qc5 Rad1 fxg5 Be5+ Bf6 Bd6 Qxc3 Bb4 Qb2 Bxf8+ Kxf8 Bxc6 b5 Qe4 Nxc6 Qxc6 Kg7 Qxa8 Bf5 Qxa7+ Kg8
 23	00:45	 75.943k	1.687k	+0,75	Re1
 23	00:45	 75.943k	1.687k	+0,82	Re1
 23	00:46	 78.140k	1.687k	+0,85	Re1

[IQ]

You don't seem to actually understand anything about that position.
It's weird that ppl are not capable even to do descent analysis of the game.
The sacrifice was not sound and Alpha0 won the game just because SF made couple of blunders in a row, first 21...Bf5 instead of 21...Kg7 and then even more crucial 22. ...Qa3 instead of 22...Qe6 and then Qf7.

22. .... Qe6 could be answered by Bxg5+ with

Analysis by asmFishW_2017-11-19_popcnt:

+- (21.36 ++) Depth: 34/62 00:02:17 3697MN, tb=160567


You probably mixed up some lines.