TalkChess.com
Hosted by Your Move Chess & Games

Author Message
Álvaro Begué

Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Posts: 806
Location: New York

Post subject: Re: Google's AlphaGo team has been working on chess    Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:14 pm

pilgrimdan wrote:
AlvaroBegue wrote:
pilgrimdan wrote:
AlvaroBegue wrote:
 Henk wrote: I still don't understand. How do you get from 73 planes of size 8x8 a probability for each possible move ?

First let's explain where the 73 comes from, in case anyone in this conversation doesn't know. Queens can move in 56 different ways (8 directions and up to 7 steps in each direction). This also contains the ways kings, bishops, rooks and pawns move. Then there are 8 ways knight move. Finally, we can under-promote in 9 ways ({capture left, capture right, move straight} x {promote to R, promote to B, promote to N}). So now we encode a move as the `from' square (64 possibilities) and a number from 1 to 73, indicating the way the piece is moving.

The neural network comes up with 73 planes of size 8x8, where each entry is a single real number. Now we generate the legal moves (by conventional means) for each move we look up the value assigned to it by the neural network, and we say the probability of the move is proportional to exp(value). Now these probabilities don't add up to 1, so you need to re-scale.

probability(m) = exp(value[m]) / sum_i(exp(value[i]))

This operation is called SoftMax in the machine-learning world.

it sounds like to me ... that this takes a lot of memory to do...

how much memory is needed to do all of this stuff...

Do you mean memory or storage for the training database? I can make guesses about both, but I am not sure what your concern is.

okay ... yes ... storage is what I had in mine ...

You don't need to store all that. If you have the result of the game and the list of moves, you can build the input and the desired outputs on the fly.

In the paper they indicate that they also store the distribution of playouts amongst the moves, since they use that as labels for the policy output. That would require an additional ~100 bytes per move.
 Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First
Subject Author Date/Time
Peter Kappler Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:10 am
Ray Banks Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:18 am
Fabien Letouzey Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:31 am
Xavier Combelle Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:21 am
Rémi Coulom Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:36 pm
Marco Costalba Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:50 pm
Michael Sherwin Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:46 pm
Robin Messemer Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:54 pm
Michael Sherwin Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:24 pm
Robin Messemer Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:33 pm
Michael Sherwin Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:21 pm
Robin Messemer Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:09 pm
Michael Sherwin Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:14 pm
Robin Messemer Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:08 pm
Michael Sherwin Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:05 am
Michael Sherwin Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:54 am
Michael Sherwin Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:59 am
Ronald de Man Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:01 am
Michael Sherwin Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:31 am
Michael Sherwin Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:54 am
Dan Ellwein Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:31 am
Michael Sherwin Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:13 am
H.G.Muller Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:21 am
Michael Sherwin Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:38 am
Ed Schroder Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:22 am
Michel Van den Bergh Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:43 pm
Rémi Coulom Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:55 pm
Srdja Matovic Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:22 am
Salvatore Giannotti Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:32 am
Jon Dart Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:13 pm
Uri Blass Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:37 am
Joerg Oster Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:53 am
Carl Lumma Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:17 pm
Fulvio Benini Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:31 am
Guenther Simon Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:03 am
Thomas Ewers Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:09 am
Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:51 am
Martin Sedlak Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:32 am
Daniel Shawul Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:05 pm
Martin Sedlak Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:11 pm
Evgeniy Zheltonozhskiy Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:15 pm
Martin Sedlak Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:29 pm
Evgeniy Zheltonozhskiy Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:47 pm
Jon Dart Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:56 pm
Robin Messemer Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:00 pm
Dann Corbit Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:07 pm
Leo Anger Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:53 am
Rein Halbersma Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:49 am
Robin Messemer Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:52 pm
szabo, robert Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:47 pm
Stefano Gemma Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:53 pm
Robin Messemer Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:05 pm
Brian Richardson Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:25 pm
Henk van den Belt Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:01 pm
Brian Richardson Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:28 pm
Henk van den Belt Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:23 am
Robin Messemer Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:51 am
Henk van den Belt Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:59 am
Robin Messemer Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:15 pm
Daniel Shawul Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:03 pm
Uri Blass Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:42 pm
Daniel Shawul Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:15 am
Ed Schroder Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:56 am
J. B. Buijs Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:07 pm
Daniel Shawul Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:38 pm
Robin Messemer Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:37 pm
Brahim Hamadicharef Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:14 am
Ed Schroder Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:08 am
Matthew Hull Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:49 am
Ed Schroder Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:00 am
J. B. Buijs Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:12 pm
Ronald de Man Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:23 pm
Matthew Hull Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:58 pm
Matthew Hull Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:19 pm
Peter Österlund Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:46 am
Michel Van den Bergh Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:05 am
Michel Van den Bergh Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:18 am
Ed Schroder Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:09 am
Brahim Hamadicharef Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:56 pm
Brahim Hamadicharef Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:06 pm
Ed Schroder Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:48 pm
Brian Richardson Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:23 am
Ed Schroder Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:58 am
Jesse Gersenson Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:46 am
Ed Schroder Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:26 am
J. B. Buijs Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:12 am
Ed Schroder Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:17 am
Peter Österlund Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:40 pm
Jonathan Rosenthal Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:57 pm
Henk van den Belt Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:03 pm
Carl Lumma Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:06 pm
Evgeniy Zheltonozhskiy Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:51 am
Henk van den Belt Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:46 am
Ronald de Man Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:25 pm
Robin Messemer Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:32 pm
Ronald de Man Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:52 pm
Milos Stanisavljevic Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:38 pm
Ronald de Man Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:24 am
Milos Stanisavljevic Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:29 am
Robin Messemer Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:47 am
Ronald de Man Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:38 am
Álvaro Begué Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:05 am
Dan Ellwein Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:29 am
Ronald de Man Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:18 pm
Robin Messemer Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:01 pm
Ronald de Man Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:34 pm
Jesse Gersenson Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:08 pm
J. B. Buijs Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:13 pm
Robin Messemer Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:29 pm
J. B. Buijs Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:24 pm
Henk van den Belt Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:30 pm
Milos Stanisavljevic Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:41 pm
Milos Stanisavljevic Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:28 pm
H.G.Muller Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:39 pm
Milos Stanisavljevic Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:45 pm
Albert Silver Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:28 pm
Robin Messemer Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:09 pm
H.G.Muller Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:19 pm
Michel Van den Bergh Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:29 pm
Robin Messemer Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:25 pm
Sven Schüle Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:11 pm
Robin Messemer Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:46 pm
Ronald de Man Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:59 pm
Robin Messemer Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:30 pm
Ronald de Man Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:55 pm
Robin Messemer Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:58 pm
Luis Babboni Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:53 am
H.G.Muller Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:00 pm
Rein Halbersma Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:18 pm
Álvaro Begué Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:25 pm
H.G.Muller Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:01 pm
Robin Messemer Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:16 pm
H.G.Muller Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:58 am
Michel Van den Bergh Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:16 am
H.G.Muller Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:54 am
Rein Halbersma Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:35 am
H.G.Muller Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:59 am
Rein Halbersma Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:41 pm
H.G.Muller Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:28 pm
Rein Halbersma Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:48 pm
H.G.Muller Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:58 pm
Michel Van den Bergh Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:18 pm
H.G.Muller Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:32 pm
Michel Van den Bergh Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:45 pm
Ronald de Man Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:58 pm
Ronald de Man Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:07 pm
Robin Messemer Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:22 pm
Ronald de Man Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:00 am
Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:37 am
Henk van den Belt Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:07 am
H.G.Muller Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:48 pm
Ronald de Man Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:38 pm
Daniel Shawul Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:54 pm
Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:16 pm
Robin Messemer Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:27 pm
Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:32 pm
Robin Messemer Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:50 pm
Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:46 pm
Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:35 pm
Ronald de Man Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:36 pm
Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:50 am
Nicu Ionita Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:16 pm
Richard Delorme Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:17 pm
J. B. Buijs Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:31 pm
Henk van den Belt Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:16 pm
Robin Messemer Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:07 pm
Álvaro Begué Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:18 pm
H.G.Muller Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:18 pm
Truls Edvard Stokke Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:31 pm
Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:41 pm
Robin Messemer Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:48 pm
Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:43 pm
Robin Messemer Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:51 pm
Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:23 pm
Robin Messemer Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:28 pm
Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:58 pm
Robin Messemer Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:06 pm
Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:15 pm
H.G.Muller Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:41 pm
Robin Messemer Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:51 pm
H.G.Muller Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:12 am
Pio Korinth Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:47 am
Truls Edvard Stokke Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:18 pm
Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:33 pm
Álvaro Begué Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:19 pm
Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:57 pm
Álvaro Begué Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:19 pm
Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:24 pm
Truls Edvard Stokke Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:38 pm
Milos Stanisavljevic Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:00 pm
Truls Edvard Stokke Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:09 pm
Henk van den Belt Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:49 pm
Robert Pope Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:03 pm
Truls Edvard Stokke Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:38 am
Henk van den Belt Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:38 pm
Álvaro Begué Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:57 pm
Henk van den Belt Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:17 pm
Álvaro Begué Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:28 pm
Henk van den Belt Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:00 pm
Dan Ellwein Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:18 am
Álvaro Begué Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:09 am
Dan Ellwein Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:59 am
Re: Google's AlphaGo team has been working on chess Álvaro Begué Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:14 pm
Dan Ellwein Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:21 pm

 Jump to: Select a forum Computer Chess Club Forums----------------Computer Chess Club: General TopicsComputer Chess Club: Tournaments and MatchesComputer Chess Club: Programming and Technical DiscussionsComputer Chess Club: Engine Origins Other Forums----------------Chess Thinkers ForumChess Players ForumForum Help and Suggestions
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum