Too much LCZero

[hgm]

This is an LCZero post

No, this does not count as an LCZero post. If I spam the forum with threads that complain there is too much talk about snakes here, that would not make it true that there is too much (or even any) talk about snakes. Just that I am spamming complaints.

[Karlo Bala]

I wonder if LCZero based posts could have their own place because it is hard to find other post among those related to it.

And I hereby assure other authors not to be intimidated by the LCZero flood. I still love their engines and wait eagerly for new releases.

Few years ago almost every post was about Fruit/Rybka. People like to talk about new things until the subject is exhausted. I do not see any problem with that.

[Milos]

Why you are saying that? In 2-3 months LC0 could rewrite the opening theory, a thing mostly humans developed in 100+ years. Engines up to now were pretty hapless without human input in the evaluation for that.

With proper hardware (like that 192 cores server from Ipmanchess) and Cerebellum approach (just better optimized) one could get much better opening book than what one would "get" from A0 (getting a book out of NN is not so easy as one might think), and with much less resources than it has been invested in LC0 even so far.

[peter]

If you read my and your post carefully again, Kai, you'll find out, that yours is simply cofirming mine.

It's not about Celo (Computer-Elo), it's about human input.

[Laskos]

Why you are saying that? In 2-3 months LC0 could rewrite the opening theory, a thing mostly humans developed in 100+ years. Engines up to now were pretty hapless without human input in the evaluation for that.

With proper hardware (like that 192 cores server from Ipmanchess) and Cerebellum approach (just better optimized) one could get much better opening book than what one would "get" from A0 (getting a book out of NN is not so easy as one might think), and with much less resources than it has been invested in LC0 even so far.

I was not talking of opening book. Opening books are in wide and wild race in say playchess engine room for 15+ years. What impact did they have on human opening theory and trends? Well, maybe I am not up to date, but AFAIK the relationship was weak, aside some particular quirks and traps. LC0 has the potential to re-shape the general human opening theory.

[JohnW]

Yeah can we get back to the Stockfish posts, we just don't have enough of them..

[peter]

Yeah can we get back to the Stockfish posts, we just don't have enough of them..

That's the second one secret about the A0- LC0- Hype at computerchess- fora:
Some got bored of (computer)chess as it was and now are happy thinking there was something "really" new.

As for the game (chess) itself, I fear, it won't stay for long as new as some like to think right now.
There won't be any reinvention of the "human opening theory" so much more than there was such already by engine- and database- support till now and will be further on anyhow, or it won't be "human" opening theory at all anymore.

What will a LC0- like opening book be good for humans, if they don't understand the moves and plans at least into midgame? They won't even be able to memorize the lines not understanding them.
Or do some here really think, LC0 will prove White wins with perfect play for sure from starting position?

That would be the only really new thing about opening theory to me at all, thinking till now, perfect play from both sides ends up remis most probably.

[Laskos]

Yeah can we get back to the Stockfish posts, we just don't have enough of them..

That's the second one secret about the A0- LC0- Hype at computerchess- fora:
Some got bored of (computer)chess as it was and now are happy thinking there was something "really" new.

As for the game (chess) itself, I fear, it won't stay for long as new as some like to think right now.
There won't be any reinvention of the "human opening theory" more than there was already by engines till now, or it won't be "human" opening theory at all anymore.

What will a LC0- like opening book be good for humans, if they don't understand the moves and plans at least into midgame? They won't even be able to memorize the lines not understanding them.
Or do some here really think, LC0 will prove White wins with perfect play for sure from starting position?

That would be the only really new thing about opening theory to me at all, thinking till now, perfect play from both sides ends up remis most probably.

This is "Computer Chess Club". If you are so much into purely human Chess, there are better places than here. While partly true, AlphaGo already had some impact on Go human theory (well, according to my limited information). And they still don't have it on their PC.

[peter]

Kai, I really don't know, why you feel attacked personally by my points of view. As a matter of fact, I not only don't attack you, I don't even attack your holy LC0, believe it or not, I find it very interesting by myself, I'm just (till now) not as big a fan as you are, as it seems.

I already said in this thread, I don't have any problem with too much LC0 or A0 postings here, as you see, I add some to them even too.

If you don't like mine, simply don't read them, that would spare your answering too.

[George Tsavdaris]

LCZero is the most interesting thing that happened in computer chess in the last 30 years.

No way.
Deep Blue(1997), introduction of Rybka 1.0(domination for 10 consecutive years) and maybe others.
Leela is very interesting too, as its limit is the sky hopefully.