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by yanquis1972
Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:54 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Alphazero news
Replies: 381
Views: 98881

Re: Alphazero news

yes, but in a much smaller sample SF10 has also performed better without the book (vs itself). probably the strength of SF10 from move 1 is underestimated by many, but i also believe the book is intended to produce competitive games, so despite the time edge SF10 typically gets a worse position than...
by yanquis1972
Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:07 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Alphazero news
Replies: 381
Views: 98881

Re: Alphazero news

After 50 games against each, test30 is -85 elo vs SF10 and -35 against SF+ perfect2017. Think I’ll try running test10 to see if that sticks or if kais trend continues.
by yanquis1972
Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:35 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Alphazero news
Replies: 381
Views: 98881

Re: Alphazero news

Have you looked at the best test10 net with perfect2017? not yet, no, but i hope someone does if i don't get to it. more interested in test30 myself, but provided there's sufficient variation in the book openings (i'll review the games later tonight), so far it's sustaining ~+30 elo against SF w/ b...
by yanquis1972
Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:42 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Alphazero news
Replies: 381
Views: 98881

Re: Alphazero news

with perfect2017 i'm getting pretty even results with rolling test30 nets vs SF10. scoring about +25 elo against SF with the book vs without it; SF10 vs SF10+book is about the same. i'm using absolute FPU & haven't checked for opening variety etc, but i'd be curious if test30 fares any better in kai...
by yanquis1972
Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:35 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Alphazero news
Replies: 381
Views: 98881

Re: Alphazero news

I don’t think so, necessarily. Given their purpose, and their nature, the first of which (to self-learn and excel at chess with limited resources) tends toward a machine of relatively limited scope but ultimately greater pure strength. With greater resources and refinement of techniques we should se...
by yanquis1972
Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:14 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Alphazero news
Replies: 381
Views: 98881

Re: Alphazero news

depending on what 'x' is, that the book(or resultant TC advantage) is overly strong. as i've said, there's a massive difference between opening variety & simply outbooking the opponent . if you want to test the former it's vital to make sure you're not falling into the latter. so low-ply & with rel...
by yanquis1972
Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:54 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Alphazero news
Replies: 381
Views: 98881

Re: Alphazero news

i still don't see a control (eg how many points, if any, does SF10 lose against SF10 with 'bookx'?)(and could a link be provided, btw? googling turns up nothing for me so far) If bookless SF lost by x points to SF+bookx, what would you conclude? depending on what 'x' is, that the book(or resultant ...
by yanquis1972
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:26 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Alphazero news
Replies: 381
Views: 98881

Re: Alphazero news

yes, the notion that NNs 'steer' positions is observable. Test30 for a bit didn't understand the caro-kann at all (as of last night, it's was its favored defense against e4) and would attempt to transpose it into some sort of french defense (? can't recall details, but always played 3...e6) it 'knew...
by yanquis1972
Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:32 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Alphazero news
Replies: 381
Views: 98881

Re: Alphazero news

Apologies if this was accounted for in kais test but a factor I didn’t consider is that an opening book is a form of time odds against a bookless opponent. Eg in an ongoing game SF10 used about 90 seconds by move 6 or. 7 in a 5+5 game before SF10book had to touch the clock.
by yanquis1972
Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:54 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: Alphazero news
Replies: 381
Views: 98881

Re: Alphazero news

No, that sounds sensible to me. Without knowing the strength tho (how many elo does an unassisted SF lose to it? What’s the typical SF10 eval out of book compared to the start position vs Lc0 and In self play?) I’d still advocate for truncating after a few moves. I don’t know that the deepmind set w...