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by lkaufman
Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:34 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: Tournaments and Matches
Topic: Firebird 1.0 and 1.01: 180 games.
Replies: 67
Views: 11781

Re: Firebird 1.0 and 1.01: 180 games.

I've posted enough evidence of the eval similarities already, I have no real interest in further proving what's obvious. In general I'll confine my posts to issues relating to why Robbo outperforms Rybka, I have no conflict of interest in trying to learn the truth about this. Of course if someone as...
by lkaufman
Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:13 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: Tournaments and Matches
Topic: Firebird 1.0 and 1.01: 180 games.
Replies: 67
Views: 11781

Re: Firebird 1.0 and 1.01: 180 games.

I don't call them clones, I call them derivatives, which I don't think is very controversial. I don't even take a position on whether they are illegal or should be banned; that comes down to a judgement call on how much a program has to be modified before it becomes legit, and perhaps on whether the...
by lkaufman
Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:05 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: Tournaments and Matches
Topic: Firebird 1.0 and 1.01: 180 games.
Replies: 67
Views: 11781

Re: Firebird 1.0 and 1.01: 180 games.

I have the opposite impression, that it is more like Rybka 3 without the evaluation. Are you sure you are quoting him correctly? If so please tell me where you saw this quote. It makes no sense to me.
by lkaufman
Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:23 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: Tournaments and Matches
Topic: Firebird 1.0 and 1.01: 180 games.
Replies: 67
Views: 11781

Re: Firebird 1.0 and 1.01: 180 games.

I'm not familiar with the term "seize" in connection with Task Manager, but as far as I can tell both programs use about 25% of my quad when it is their turn (running single-core time games). Anyway this is unrelated to performance at fixed depth. But I do notice that Robbo seems to use more time sh...
by lkaufman
Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:55 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: Tournaments and Matches
Topic: Firebird 1.0 and 1.01: 180 games.
Replies: 67
Views: 11781

Re: Firebird 1.0 and 1.01: 180 games.

That's right, the test doesn't tell us whether Robbo loses at fixed depth due to more pruning or to less chess knowledge. However I know that is does more pruning and has less chess knowledge, so it's reasonable to assume that both contribute to the result. Which is the dominant factor I don't know.
by lkaufman
Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:37 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: Tournaments and Matches
Topic: Firebird 1.0 and 1.01: 180 games.
Replies: 67
Views: 11781

Re: Firebird 1.0 and 1.01: 180 games.

Comparing unrelated engines at fixed depth doesn't tell us much. Rybka and Robbo are highly selective, so they may look bad against some program that does not prune a lot of moves. Perhaps Hiarcs is such a program. It may also have a more sophisticated eval, but this test doesn't prove that. Fritz 1...
by lkaufman
Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:00 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: Tournaments and Matches
Topic: Firebird 1.0 and 1.01: 180 games.
Replies: 67
Views: 11781

Re: Firebird 1.0 and 1.01: 180 games.

I'm not sure what the percentages you mention refer to. My result was that Rybka 3 matched 58.7% of nearly 10,000 moves while Robbo 9 matched 58.15% at one minute. So Rybka 3 did better, but I called it equal as the difference of about half a percentage point is not highly significant for the sample...
by lkaufman
Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:27 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: Tournaments and Matches
Topic: Firebird 1.0 and 1.01: 180 games.
Replies: 67
Views: 11781

Re: Firebird 1.0 and 1.01: 180 games.

no, I mean that they are equal at one minute per move based on matching thousands of games, not based on two games.
by lkaufman
Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:14 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: Tournaments and Matches
Topic: Firebird 1.0 and 1.01: 180 games.
Replies: 67
Views: 11781

Re: Firebird 1.0 and 1.01: 180 games.

I don't claim that the two programs are the same or even nearly the same, because the derivatives have a simpler but faster evaluation which in timed play will often lead to a different move. These differences favored Firebird in the two games you mention, but based on literally thousands of such co...