Search found 633 matches

by mhull
Tue May 15, 2018 4:05 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo
Replies: 604
Views: 100094

Re: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo

No current computer chess program tells us anything about the asymptotic approach to best play, because they are all so far below best play. With all due respect, you wouldn't know. Human assessment of how close programs (which are hundreds of Elo better players than them) are approaching best play...
by mhull
Tue May 15, 2018 2:08 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo
Replies: 604
Views: 100094

Re: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo

The idea of computer chess is the asymptotic approach to best play. You can't measure that approach if much weaker humans are ALWAYS interjecting their moves into the test . Any resulting Elo measures are contaminated with human moves. If we calculated human Elo using games composed partly of compu...
by mhull
Mon May 14, 2018 1:39 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo
Replies: 604
Views: 100094

Re: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo

Sure, many would say his openings were limited but his results suggest that nobody was able to take advantage of it or even that it was a disadvantage in the first place. If God only played one opening as White and always won, isn't it true that people would complain his opening repertoire was limi...
by mhull
Mon May 14, 2018 3:38 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo
Replies: 604
Views: 100094

Re: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo

It's okay to test it playing its chosen opening with its opponent loaded with whatever opening book (and tablebases) its author wants. What I disagree with is when you blurred the line between what it thinks is wrong and what is wrong. Current testing method isn't measuring the "wrong/right" openin...
by mhull
Sun May 13, 2018 3:17 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo
Replies: 604
Views: 100094

Re: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo

With chess, what is it that we don't know? How to play like God, that's what. But if I want to study opening XYZ, of what interest is that when the program thinks that's a wrong opening in the first place? You want to use an engine to analyze a wrong opening, that's fine . But what are we doing wit...
by mhull
Sat May 12, 2018 9:57 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo
Replies: 604
Views: 100094

Re: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo

But objective testing cannot happen if assuaging human boredom is the priority. Of course you're right, especially considering the boredom- boundary of different people differ much too. :) And of course it's of some thrill too, watching the development of an engine Elo- wise, especially in a way LC...
by mhull
Sat May 12, 2018 3:33 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo
Replies: 604
Views: 100094

Re: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo

I have argued eloquently and in vain to allow L0 to play all its own moves and not impose book lines upon it (in testing gauntlets). Forced books will skew Elo estimates in unknown ways. But people have the CCRL-style testing (stripped/hobbled-engine) deeply ingrained in their thinking and one cann...
by mhull
Fri May 11, 2018 5:52 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo
Replies: 604
Views: 100094

Re: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo

any idea how much this would improve if hardware was at alphazero's level? i thought i'd read 80kn/s for AZ, but i have no idea how accurate that is or if it directly compares. basically i'm wondering how poor the tactics really are compared to what can be realistically hoped; could AZ have been, f...
by mhull
Mon May 07, 2018 5:21 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo
Replies: 604
Views: 100094

Re: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo

But they don't help if the search simply never looks at the key move. I think that's the key point to the whole tactics discussion. Leela misses tactics whenever the policy priors on one of the moves of the tactical line are low. But this just proves that Leela is no AlphaZero (yet), not that she c...
by mhull
Thu May 03, 2018 8:09 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo
Replies: 604
Views: 100094

Re: LCZero: Progress and Scaling. Relation to CCRL Elo

Reproducibility at least is not a problem here. That Leela in A0 conditions is 3300 and A0 is 3600 CCRL Elo level is not a problem to me. Reproducibility by definition is not a problem for Leela. It is a problem for A0, but Leela's existence solves the problem. I meant reproducing A0 results. They ...