Search found 327 matches

by noobpwnftw
Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:06 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?
Replies: 72
Views: 10594

Re: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?

that a reinforcement learning-based approach is capable of competing with the traditional alpha-beta approach So where is the search part? Is it not included in the preprint or something? Your claim that chess is somehow different from Go, likewise, would have been much more convincing had it been ...
by noobpwnftw
Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:39 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?
Replies: 72
Views: 10594

Re: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?

This argue about training time is going nowhere. We can't really say that we spent 70 years on SF and they took 3 hours to surpass. After something gets invented and it just can do certain things way faster, like you can now have all perfect knowledge of 6 piece endgames or below in a weekend or les...
by noobpwnftw
Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:29 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?
Replies: 72
Views: 10594

Re: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?

This entire thing is like they are putting a jet engine into a car, describing how to build that awesome jet engine and then say hey this car can take you to 100 places faster than a helicopter. Then the fanboys all yell "that's quite an awesome jet engine, we must rip ______ and put it on everythin...
by noobpwnftw
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:29 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?
Replies: 72
Views: 10594

Re: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?

I refer you to the title of this thread. "So Alpha Zero was a hoax?" sounds pretty conspiracy theory-esque to me. If this is not your view, then I apologize for lumping you in with everyone else, but frankly, if you don't want the label "conspiracy theorist", you're going to need to explain why you...
by noobpwnftw
Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:20 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?
Replies: 72
Views: 10594

Re: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?

I am sorry but I do not understand want you mean by this sentence. Perhaps you can reword it for clarity. You can use anything vs SF and run as many matches as you want until you get a satisfying set of 100 games when the fate is on your side, it is still the fact and you are not forging it. Also, ...
by noobpwnftw
Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:43 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?
Replies: 72
Views: 10594

Re: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?

Answer: there is none. But it is not related to the topic whether A0 was a hoax, and my previous post answered you why it can never be. If A0 was trained using SF as oracle then it would technically be weaker than what it is now because reinforcement learning can teach NNs more than just simulating ...
by noobpwnftw
Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:21 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?
Replies: 72
Views: 10594

Re: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?

Has there been another engine recently that played a 100 game match vs SF and not dropped a single game? I will also say if you think NNs have holes, human programmed evals likely have at least an order of magnitude more... but w/e... There is no doubt that NNs worked very well in Go, but that aura...
by noobpwnftw
Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:57 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?
Replies: 72
Views: 10594

Re: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?

jhellis3 wrote:Well, people currently ignore or work around all the defects of present engines because they are still the best we currently have.... why would a NN based engine be any different?
But whoever else does something new(convincing or not) don't get this many of fanboys neglecting reality, do they?
by noobpwnftw
Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:43 am
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?
Replies: 72
Views: 10594

Re: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?

The issue with that interpretation is that DeepMind is not a PR company. How, concretely, does publishing a misleading preprint benefit them? They are a research group, and their funding is reliant on shareholder approval, not public opinion--do you think that making claims they can't back up is a ...
by noobpwnftw
Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:02 pm
Forum: Computer Chess Club: General Topics
Topic: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?
Replies: 72
Views: 10594

Re: So Alpha Zero was a hoax?

The SF testing framework is allways against the latest SF with all it's strengths and weaknesses. Alpha zero aproach seems much more solid and weakness proof. Last time I checked the A0's training is solely based on self-play which also applies to the first statement. Then I cannot reason how you c...