The Bryntse Gambit

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Dann Corbit
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Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by Dann Corbit » Tue May 14, 2019 6:26 pm

Stockfish:
rn1qkb1r/pp2pppp/8/2p3N1/2B1pPn1/8/PPPP2PP/RNB1K2R w KQkq - acd 52/82; acs 10686 ; acn 198903895k; ce -158 ; bm Bxf7+; pv Bxf7+ Kd7 Be6+ Kc6 Bxg4 e5 Nf7 Qe8 Nxe5+ Kc7 Nc3 Bd6 0-0 h5 Bf5 Rf8 Bg6 Qe6 Nb5+ Kd8 Nxd6 Qxd6 d3 Qd4+ Rf2 e3 Re2 Qxf4 Nf3 Qf6 Be4 Kc7 Bxe3 Nd7 c4 Rae8 Rae1 Ne5 Bxc5 Nxf3+ Bxf3 Rxe2 Rxe2 Rd8 Be4 b6 Be3 Rf8 Rf2 Qe7 Rc2 h4 c5 b5 h3 Qe5 Bf2 Qh5 Rd2 b4 d4 Qh6 Rd1 Qe6 Re1 Qxa2 Bf3 Qxb2 Re7+ Kb8 Rxg7 Qc1+ Kh2;

Komodo:
rn1qkb1r/pp2pppp/8/2p3N1/2B1pPn1/8/PPPP2PP/RNB1K2R w KQkq - acd 42; acs 11911 ; acn 219320990k; ce -117 ; bm Bxf7+; pv Bxf7+ Kd7 Be6+ Kc6 Bxg4 e5 Nf7 Qe8 Nxe5+ Kc7 Nc3 Bd6 0-0 h5 Bf5 Rf8 Bg6 Qe6 Nb5+ Kd8 Nxd6 Qxd6 d3 Qd4+ Rf2 e3 Re2 Qxf4 Nf3 Qf6 Be4 Kc7 Bxe3 Nd7 c3 Rae8 Rae1 Kb8 Ng5 Qa6 a3 Ka8 c4 h4 h3 Qd6 Bd5 a6 Kh1 Qe5 Ne4 Qh5 b4 Nb6 Bxc5 Nxd5 cxd5 Rf1+ Rxf1 Qxe2 Rf3 Qa2 d6;

Shredder:
rn1qkb1r/pp2pppp/8/2p3N1/2B1pPn1/8/PPPP2PP/RNB1K2R w KQkq - acd 41/79; acs 10657 ; acn 193493925k; ce -134 ; bm Bxf7+; pv Bxf7+ Kd7 Be6+ Kc6 Bxg4 e5 Nf7 Qe8 Nxe5+ Kc7 Nc3 Bd6 Nc4 b5 Nxd6 Kxd6 d3 exd3+ Kf2 Na6 Re1 Qd8 Re6+ Kc7 Nxb5+ Kb8 Rxa6 d2 Bxd2 Qxd2+ Kg1 Re8 h3 Re1+ Rxe1 Qxe1+ Kh2 Qf1 Rd6 Qxf4+ Kg1 Qe3+ Kh2 Qe5+ Kg1 Qe1+ Kh2 Qa5 Na3 a6 Nc4 Qc7 Bf3 Ra7 b3 a5 Kg1 Qe7 Rb6+ Kc8 Rc6+ Kd7 Rd6+ Qxd6 Nxd6 Kxd6 a4 Re7 Kf1 Re8;
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jp
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Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by jp » Tue May 14, 2019 7:07 pm

chrisw wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:33 am
AdminX wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:32 am
Game 2 completed.
after ..15 h5, it is a very different game depending on Bf5 or Bh3

Bf5 appears the AB common move, and it looks to end up more or less the same place after a few more moves.

Bh3 is LC0 move
Though Dann's Shredder adds variation by playing Nc4 instead of 0-0 a move earlier, so maybe the place to start is one move earlier after Nc3 Bd6, which Speelman calls "a pretty sensible way for Black to play".

zullil
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Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by zullil » Wed May 15, 2019 10:28 am

Stockfish-dev prefers Bf5 to Bh3:

-1.58 14. Bf5 Rf8 15. Bg6 Qe6 16. Nb5+ Kd8 17. Nxd6 Qxd6 18. d3 Qd4+ 19. Rf2 e3 20. Re2 Qxf4 21. Nf3 Qf6 22. Be4 Kc7 23. Bxe3 Nd7 24. Rb1 Rae8 25. b4 Qa6 26. c4 cxb4 27. Rxb4 b6 28. h3 Kc8 29. Rb5 Qa4 30. Re1 Qxa2 31. Bd4 Qc2 32. Rb2 Qa4 33. Rbb1 Qa3 34. Rb5 a6 35. Rg5 Qb4 36. Re2 Qa4 37. Re1 Rf7 38. Rc1 Rxe4 39. dxe4 Qa3 40. Re1 Qb4 41. Re3 Nc5 42. Bxc5 bxc5 43. e5 Qxc4 44. e6 Re7 45. Rxh5 Rxe6 46. Rxe6 Qxe6 47. Rxc5+ Kb7 48. Ne5 Qd6 (depth 56, 8:04:21)

-1.83 14. Bh3 Bxe5 15. fxe5 Nc6 16. d3 Nd4 17. Bg5 exd3 18. cxd3 Kc6 19. g3 h4 20. gxh4 Ne6 21. Bg2+ Kc7 22. Nd5+ Kb8 23. Be7 a5 24. Rac1 Ra6 25. Kh1 Qb5 26. Rc3 Ka7 27. b3 Qd7 28. Rcc1 Rh5 29. Rce1 Rc6 30. Rf7 Qe8 31. Rff1 Rc8 32. Re3 Qd7 33. Rf7 Ka6 34. Re1 Qe8 35. Rf3 Ka7 36. Re4 Nd4 37. Rf1 Rf5 38. Rxf5 Nxf5 39. Bg5 Nd4 40. e6 Nxe6 41. Nf4 Nxf4 42. Rxe8 Rxe8 43. Be4 Ne2 44. Bd2 b6 45. Kg2 Nd4 46. Bf4 Re6 47. Bg3 Ka6 48. Kh3 Kb5 49. Kg4 Kb4 (depth 56, 8:04:21)

Dann Corbit
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Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by Dann Corbit » Wed May 15, 2019 6:35 pm

I also tossed in Sting:
acd 40; acs 43177 ; acn 599380716k; ce -165 ; bm Bxf7+; pv Bxf7+ Kd7 Be6+ Kc6 Bxg4 e5 Nf7 Qe8 Nxh8 exf4 Nc3;

I say put a fork in him (Bryntse), he's done.

I would love to be wrong, because it's wonderfully quirky. But it looks like a big disadvantage for white.
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
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jp
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Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by jp » Wed May 15, 2019 8:15 pm

jp wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 7:07 pm
chrisw wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:33 am
after ..15 h5, it is a very different game depending on Bf5 or Bh3
Bf5 appears the AB common move, and it looks to end up more or less the same place after a few more moves.
Bh3 is LC0 move
Though Dann's Shredder adds variation by playing Nc4 instead of 0-0 a move earlier, so maybe the place to start is one move earlier after Nc3 Bd6.
After 14. Nc3 Bd6, SF10 at low depth (depth=30) goes
(-1.76) 15. Nc4 Na6 16. Nxd6
(-1.87) 15. 0-0 h5 16. Bh3

That eval. difference may flip and get bigger at greater depths. But I think it's possible that in many positions the engines show very small differences in eval. between different moves, because they haven't got an idea for how to play either side. It's then harder to claim that there is one clear PV or even one main branching point.

e.g.
zullil wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:28 am
Stockfish-dev prefers Bf5 to Bh3:
-1.58 14. Bf5 Rf8 (depth 56, 8:04:21)
-1.83 14. Bh3 Bxe5 (depth 56, 8:04:21)
The difference in eval. here is pretty small too, even though it's gone to depth 56.

zullil
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Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by zullil » Wed May 15, 2019 8:40 pm

jp wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:15 pm

e.g.
zullil wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:28 am
Stockfish-dev prefers Bf5 to Bh3:
-1.58 14. Bf5 Rf8 (depth 56, 8:04:21)
-1.83 14. Bh3 Bxe5 (depth 56, 8:04:21)
The difference in eval. here is pretty small too, even though it's gone to depth 56.
Depth 60 now. I agree with Dann; this gambit is a loser for White.

-1.83 14. Bf5 Rf8 15. Bg6 Qe6 16. Nb5+ Kd8 17. Nxd6 Qxd6 18. d3 Qd4+ 19. Rf2 e3 20. Re2 Qxf4 21. Nf3 Qf6 22. Be4 Kc7 23. Bxe3 Nd7 24. Rb1 Rae8 25. b4 Qa6 26. c4 cxb4 27. Rxb4 b6 28. h3 Kc8 29. Rb5 Qa4 30. Bf2 g6 31. Rd2 Rxe4 32. dxe4 Qxc4 33. Rbd5 Nc5 34. Bxc5 bxc5 35. e5 Re8 36. h4 Re7 37. R5d3 Qb4 38. a3 Qb1+ 39. Kf2 Qc1 40. Rd1 Qc2+ 41. R3d2 Qc4 42. Kg3 Kb8 43. Rd5 a5 44. R1d2 a4 45. Kh2 Qc1 46. Rd6 Qxa3 47. Rb6+ Rb7 48. Rdd6 Rxb6 49. Rxb6+ Kc7 50. Rxg6 (depth 60, 22:16:07)

-2.03 14. Bh3 Bxe5 15. fxe5 Nc6 16. d3 Nd4 17. Bg5 exd3 18. cxd3 Kc6 19. g3 h4 20. gxh4 Ne6 21. Bg2+ Kc7 22. Nd5+ Kb8 23. Be7 a5 24. Rae1 Ra6 25. Kh1 Ka7 26. Rf2 Qb5 27. Re3 Rh5 28. Nc3 Qe8 29. Nd5 Rc6 30. b3 Qd7 31. Rf1 Rh8 32. Rf7 Ka6 33. Rf2 Re8 34. Bd6 Nd4 35. a4 Nf5 36. Bh3 g6 37. Bxf5 gxf5 38. Nf6 Qd8 39. Nxe8 Qxe8 40. Rff3 Qe6 41. h5 Rb6 42. Bxc5 Rxb3 43. Kg1 Qg8+ 44. Kf2 Qd5 45. e6 Rb2+ 46. Kf1 Qxc5 47. e7 Rb1+ 48. Kg2 Qc2+ 49. Kg3 (depth 60, 22:16:07)

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Nordlandia
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Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by Nordlandia » Thu May 16, 2019 7:50 am

There is a very similar line. This line is more sound for white.




There is many sister variations.


jp
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Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by jp » Thu May 16, 2019 8:53 am

Nordlandia wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:50 am
There is a very similar line. This line is more sound for white.
Why do you think it's more sound? The different Black pawn placement doesn't make SF (at low depth) like it any more than the first line.

chrisw
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Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by chrisw » Thu May 16, 2019 9:30 am

Dann Corbit wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:35 pm
I also tossed in Sting:
acd 40; acs 43177 ; acn 599380716k; ce -165 ; bm Bxf7+; pv Bxf7+ Kd7 Be6+ Kc6 Bxg4 e5 Nf7 Qe8 Nxh8 exf4 Nc3;

I say put a fork in him (Bryntse), he's done.

I would love to be wrong, because it's wonderfully quirky. But it looks like a big disadvantage for white.
After four or five monte carlo playouts by mis-scoring AB programs?!

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Nordlandia
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Re: The Bryntse Gambit

Post by Nordlandia » Thu May 16, 2019 9:38 am

jp wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:53 am
Nordlandia wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:50 am
There is a very similar line. This line is more sound for white.
Why do you think it's more sound? The different Black pawn placement doesn't make SF (at low depth) like it any more than the first line.
Well, K13.01 held against latest brainfish. I remember that in the original line, K almost always lost.


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