It's here ...Honey X6

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MikeB
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It's here ...Honey X6

Post by MikeB » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:42 pm

well if you have a macOS computer anyway , or if you can compile your own

other OS flavors will be released upon receipt.

all versions have all bell and whistles, including play by FIDE Elo (or CCRL Elo) and improved adaptive and variety play
FD versions have 'fortress detection' code written Joe Ellis.
Bluefish and Blue-Honey versions have Bluefish evaluation code written by Eelco de Groot.

https://github.com/MichaelB7/Stockfish/releases/tag/X6

that's right - 8 stockfish derivative flavors , including

current-dev-Stockfish
current-dev-Stockfish-FD
Honey X6
Honey-FD
Blue-Honey
Blue-Honey-FD
Bluefish
BlueFish-FD

there's build script in the src folder, on my machine it takes 62 seconds to build all 8 flavors, just over two minutes for PGO flavors ( all macOS versions were PGO optimized)

why "X" ? , it signifies that this version is related to Stockfish 10 and development code added since the release of Stockfish 10.

have fun!

MikeB
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Location: Pen Argyl, Pennsylvania

Re: It's here ...Honey X6

Post by MikeB » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:33 am

While I wait for my partners to build some exe of different flavors, you can follow along on some games just for fun games between all 8.
TC 4 min with 2 sec increment
20 positions chosen at random, play from each opponent, both black and white

Code: Select all

Time control: 240 seconds + 2.0000 seconds
Threads = 1
Hash = 256
Date: 10/09/19 : 00:17:01

29 game(s) loaded
Rank Name               Rating   Δ     +    -     #     Σ    Σ%     W    L    D   W%    =%   OppR 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   1 Bluefish-1008       1072   0.0   17   17     4    2.5  62.5    1    0    3  25.0  75.0  1052 
   2 Bluefish-fd-1008    1055  16.6   22   22     9    4.5  50.0    0    0    9   0.0 100.0  1054 
   3 Blue-Honey-fd-X6    1055   0.5   21   21    10    5.0  50.0    0    0   10   0.0 100.0  1053 
   4 Stockfish-1008      1054   0.7   21   21    10    5.0  50.0    1    1    8  10.0  80.0  1052 
   5 Stockfish-fd-1008   1052   2.7   32   32     6    3.0  50.0    0    0    6   0.0 100.0  1052 
   6 Honey X6            1051   1.0   38   38     4    2.0  50.0    0    0    4   0.0 100.0  1052 
   7 Honey-fd-X6         1050   0.0   35   35     5    2.5  50.0    0    0    5   0.0 100.0  1052 
   8 Blue-Honey-X6       1043   7.3   16   16    10    4.5  45.0    0    1    9   0.0  90.0  1055 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
updates every 1/2 or so ( every 28 games completed, 1120 games scheduled)
It should wrap up in about 22 hours.

Live results:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qqq0j3ym8vsha ... a.txt?dl=0

PGN file:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m7m0lr1endci9dv/all.txt?dl=0

In a short ( 4 positions at 2 min with 1 sec incrment) , preliminary round to determine seeding ( highest seed wraps up last), Bluefish played very well.
The Fortress Detection versions (indicated by 'FD' in the name, code by Joe Ellis) also did very well, they did not lose as much as Elo as I thought they would. The Bluefish evaluation code, as many of you know , is by Eelco de Groot.

Code: Select all

Rank Name               Rating   Δ     +    -     #     Σ    Σ%     W    L    D   W%    =%   OppR 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   1 Bluefish-1008       1481   0.0   41   41    56   31.0  55.4   11    5   40  19.6  71.4  1446 
   2 Honey-fd-X6         1476   4.9   41   41    56   30.5  54.5   11    6   39  19.6  69.6  1446 
   3 Honey X6            1466   9.7   42   42    56   29.5  52.7   10    7   39  17.9  69.6  1448 
   4 Stockfish-fd-1008   1444  21.6   42   42    56   27.5  49.1    7    8   41  12.5  73.2  1451 
   5 Bluefish-fd-1008    1440   4.6   40   40    56   27.0  48.2    4    6   46   7.1  82.1  1451 
   6 Blue-Honey-X6       1440   0.1   41   41    56   27.0  48.2    3    5   48   5.4  85.7  1451 
   7 Stockfish-1008      1434   6.0   41   41    56   26.5  47.3    6    9   41  10.7  73.2  1452 
   8 Blue-Honey-fd-X6    1420  13.6   41   41    56   25.0  44.6    4   10   42   7.1  75.0  1454 

shrapnel
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Location: New Delhi, India

Re: It's here ...Honey X6

Post by shrapnel » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:44 am

Is it an Alpha-Beta Engine ? Only interested in Engines using the GPU not the CPU.
i7 5960X @ 4.1 Ghz, 64 GB G.Skill RipJaws RAM, Twin Asus ROG Strix OC 11 GB Geforce 2080 Tis

JohnS
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:08 am

Re: It's here ...Honey X6

Post by JohnS » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:16 am

MikeB wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:42 pm
well if you have a macOS computer anyway , or if you can compile your own

other OS flavors will be released upon receipt.

all versions have all bell and whistles, including play by FIDE Elo (or CCRL Elo) and improved adaptive and variety play
FD versions have 'fortress detection' code written Joe Ellis.
Bluefish and Blue-Honey versions have Bluefish evaluation code written by Eelco de Groot.

https://github.com/MichaelB7/Stockfish/releases/tag/X6

that's right - 8 stockfish derivative flavors , including

current-dev-Stockfish
current-dev-Stockfish-FD
Honey X6
Honey-FD
Blue-Honey
Blue-Honey-FD
Bluefish
BlueFish-FD

there's build script in the src folder, on my machine it takes 62 seconds to build all 8 flavors, just over two minutes for PGO flavors ( all macOS versions were PGO optimized)

why "X" ? , it signifies that this version is related to Stockfish 10 and development code added since the release of Stockfish 10.

have fun!
Excellent work Mike!

Can you please clarify the use of adaptive, play by Elo and variety? Do adaptive and play by ELo override the strength setting? Can they be used together (does this make any sense) or is it one or the other?

What does variety do and how does it interact with adaptive and play by ELo?

Can you provide examples of typical uci settings for lower strength options?

By the way, Leela scoring is now the default and it initially confused me because a score of +50 in the initial position looked crazy (you finally proved chess is a forced win for White :D ). I personally think centipawns should be the default as that is what most of us are used to.

Many thanks for a great engine.

carldaman
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Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:13 am

Re: It's here ...Honey X6

Post by carldaman » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:26 am

+1 Thank you very much, Mike! You took the ball and ran with it. :D

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Ovyron
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Re: It's here ...Honey X6

Post by Ovyron » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:01 am

JohnS wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:16 am
I personally think centipawns should be the default as that is what most of us are used to.
I agree, the problem with % scoring is that correct scoring needs 2 variables (chance of a side winning, chance of draw), so a position with 50% chance for white winning + 50% black winning (game will be decided in some way!) looks the same as a 100% drawn position (both appear as 50.00.)

In other words, if there's no chance of drawing anymore, the first side blundering will make the score jump from 50.00 to 100.00. Drawing chances is clearly missing.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.

MikeB
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Re: It's here ...Honey X6

Post by MikeB » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:14 am

Ovyron wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:01 am
JohnS wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:16 am
I personally think centipawns should be the default as that is what most of us are used to.
... so a position with 50% chance for white winning + 50% black winning (game will be decided in some way!) looks the same as a 100% drawn position ...
LOL and how does centipawn scoring improve that for you? I hear what you are saying - but there is toggle and most decent GUIs allow you to make that persistent. The default setting happens to be my preference and that’s the way it’s going to be since I am my number one customer here. ;>). Real bugs I will listen to, with personal preferences I will provide options if possible

MikeB
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Re: It's here ...Honey X6

Post by MikeB » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:01 pm

JohnS wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:16 am
MikeB wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:42 pm
well if you have a macOS computer anyway , or if you can compile your own

other OS flavors will be released upon receipt.

all versions have all bell and whistles, including play by FIDE Elo (or CCRL Elo) and improved adaptive and variety play
FD versions have 'fortress detection' code written Joe Ellis.
Bluefish and Blue-Honey versions have Bluefish evaluation code written by Eelco de Groot.

https://github.com/MichaelB7/Stockfish/releases/tag/X6

that's right - 8 stockfish derivative flavors , including

current-dev-Stockfish
current-dev-Stockfish-FD
Honey X6
Honey-FD
Blue-Honey
Blue-Honey-FD
Bluefish
BlueFish-FD

there's build script in the src folder, on my machine it takes 62 seconds to build all 8 flavors, just over two minutes for PGO flavors ( all macOS versions were PGO optimized)

why "X" ? , it signifies that this version is related to Stockfish 10 and development code added since the release of Stockfish 10.

have fun!
Excellent work Mike!

Can you please clarify the use of adaptive, play by Elo and variety? Do adaptive and play by ELo override the strength setting? Can they be used together (does this make any sense) or is it one or the other?

What does variety do and how does it interact with adaptive and play by ELo?

Can you provide examples of typical uci settings for lower strength options?

By the way, Leela scoring is now the default and it initially confused me because a score of +50 in the initial position looked crazy (you finally proved chess is a forced win for White :D ). I personally think centipawns should be the default as that is what most of us are used to.

Many thanks for a great engine.
Excelled questions. - first play by Elo is nps based - you should use the the uci sleep option when using any weakening level as the program will move instantly without it checked. There is no randomization except at the weakest levels. Why? Well Stockfish is so strong that even at 50 nps it plays in the 1500 to 1600 range (FIDE Elo with CCRL that’s about 1200) - the only way to get it below that Elo is to introduce randomness.

Variety play introduces randomness across the entire Elo spectrum. It costs about 300 Elo. To make up for that ,when it is used with play by Elo , I increase the nps, so it will still play close the Elo selected.

Adaptive play also introduces variety but does it differently. The code used here is from “EasyPlay”. For most people it will have range of playing of about 300 Elo as it will purposely throw you a bone when it gets ahead. Like variety play , the nps is increased under the hood , to keep the Elo close to what you selected.

You can tell when an adaptive play move is used , as the move played will not be in sync with the pv. So when you see that , that’s your chance to get back in the game. ;>)

With variety play , the pv will be in sync with the pv. They both can be used together and the play will be slight weaker than using one or the other - although the nps is raised even higher.

At higher levels of play , the adaptive play has even a wider range of playing - if you play at Elo 2900 with adaptive play , it will play close to Crafty. With a weaker opponent it could play as low 2300 to 2400 (CCRL rating), Variety play does not have a plying range capability - it plays at one level, just weaker than before.

On the LC0 scoring % , that is set to my preference, it’s what I use for all my analysis for my games and I am my number one customer ;> ) - for me that is more useful and intuitive than centipawn as it provides you the expected outcome of the game which centipawn does not provide. Keep in mind , the internal scoring mechanism is still the same - it is just converted using a formula. But I recognize that I am in the minority so there is a toggle to switch it back to centipawn scoring and with most good GUIs , one can make that change persistent. One thing I like about it is that it always real clear that are you looking at the game from my the side to move viewpoint so that box should be checked on your GUI - not from Black or white side viewpoint.
It’s one of those things, the more you use it , the more you appreciate it. Now if somebody has maintained a record of thousands and thousands of positions that they scored from a centipawn vantage point - well obviously it will not be for them.
But for actually playing games or doing analysis for a correspondence game - I like it better. I focused a lot harder on games where I am under 50% ;>).

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PeterO
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Re: It's here ...Honey X6

Post by PeterO » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:24 pm

Hi Mike!
weakening the engine is quite komplex! Interesting!
Can you give me anexample please? If I want to play the engine FIDE Elo 1600 - and as much „human like“ as possible what is a good setting for this!

Peter

MikeB
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Re: It's here ...Honey X6

Post by MikeB » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:23 pm

PeterO wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:24 pm
Hi Mike!
weakening the engine is quite komplex! Interesting!
Can you give me anexample please? If I want to play the engine FIDE Elo 1600 - and as much „human like“ as possible what is a good setting for this!

Peter
Well, I agree with a few others here on the forum , that for human play , Bluefish may have the most interesting style .
So I would try Bluefish, set FIDE Elo to 1600, and try it with varsity checked first and you will note I have a DC slider , DC stands for Dynamic attempt and set that the 75 to 90 range - it will play a bit more aggressively and speculative and than even the current Bluefish. Try these settings with variety on , then adaptive on and variety off and then with both on and try it both off as well - but definitively using Bluefish is your best bet for a more human and risky , hence more entertaining style of play.

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