We are past the stage where the OS has become the virus

[Ras]

In many fields, the best, or even only applications, _are_ Windows applications.

Of course e.g. Photoshop is superior to Gimp - but Gimp is good enough for non-professional use. Just like LibreOffice. And Thunderbird.

There, you're mistaken. There are many people who do run Photoshop, LightRoom, MSOffice (including Outlook) on their personal machines.

Then they will be increasingly pulled over by MS. It's their choice, and they have to live with the consequences. The fun question is at which point they desire "their" software less than a working system - but don't worry, MS is going to figure it out.

Yes, it's better, but there's still quite a lot of hardware that people buy off the shelf, without thinking, that won't run (completely) under Linux.

That's why, when you buy a laptop for Linux, it's not the worst idea to buy one with Linux pre-installed because that increases the chance that the manufacturer has considered that when designing the machine. That's how I did it (though I didn't keep the pre-installed distro). After all, Windows machines usually come with Windows pre-installed, too.

So in that case, we don't have a viable operating system at all anymore.

The days of progress in the PC world are over, and we're now in damage control mode. However, I'd rather take up the fight with an OS that may have some rough edges here and there than with one where the manufacturer actively fights against me. I can win or at least draw the former, but the latter is a lost cause because Microsoft has infinitely more resources than I do for making that battle as miserable for me as they like.

Linux doesn't run many applications I want to run (except when jacking around with Wine).

Though Wine isn't bad - especially under Linux Mint where you have an easy "click here" install via the Software Manager, and it actually works.

MacOS runs only on Macs where you pay €800 for a NUC-like computer that goes for €500 in the Windows world.

And it is designed to sabotage repairs, Apple is actively lobbying against the right to repair, and after warranty, they tell you to buy a new computer for what should be a 150 bucks repair, working time included.

And Windows is slowly becoming more junk.

It's fulfilling Microsoft's objectives rather well, I'd say. It's just that their objectives are increasingly out of sync with their customers'.

However... they won't, because there are 50 million Linux distributions

Flatpak and done. If the application is so great that people are willing to pay for it, then so what if it takes an additional 500MB RAM? It's just that they have to offer actual value for the money.

Maybe governments finally could wake up and understand "public money, public code", as well as the privacy problems with Windows. China is already heading for getting rid of Windows in government computers in favour of Linux, which in turn creates a market for Linux compatible hardware. South (!) Korea likewise. Europe is slow on the uptake as always because it's governed by people who print out emails, but that's a temporary problem, from a biological point of view. On the other hand, e.g. the French gendarmerie has already been with Gendbuntu for a long time now.

[mvanthoor]

In many fields, the best, or even only applications, _are_ Windows applications.

Of course e.g. Photoshop is superior to Gimp - but Gimp is good enough for non-professional use. Just like LibreOffice. And Thunderbird.

They are. Fortunately, Capture One is so powerful that I basically don't need Photoshop anymore. My picture is either good, or not. I'm a photographer, not a graphics artist. I prefer LibreOffice over MSOffice (and LaTeX over both); I use LibreOffice at home, but couldn't even begin to use it at work due to having to collaborate with others. (Even if everyone at work would use LibreOffice, it just doesn't have the collaboration features that MSOffice has.)

I use Thunderbird at home, because I detest both Outlook and web interfaces like GMail. Compared to Thunderbird, both feel wasteful with regard to screen space usage, and they just don't work like I want to work.

That's why, when you buy a laptop for Linux, it's not the worst idea to buy one with Linux pre-installed because that increases the chance that the manufacturer has considered that when designing the machine. That's how I did it (though I didn't keep the pre-installed distro). After all, Windows machines usually come with Windows pre-installed, too.

Even though I don't use Linux on the desktop or laptop at this point (but I basically use it everywhere else...), I do pick all of my hardware carefully; I've been doing so with the last two desktops and laptops, in case I _do_ switch at some point for whatever reason.

So in that case, we don't have a viable operating system at all anymore.

The days of progress in the PC world are over, and we're now in damage control mode. However, I'd rather take up the fight with an OS that may have some rough edges here and there than with one where the manufacturer actively fights against me. I can win or at least draw the former, but the latter is a lost cause because Microsoft has infinitely more resources than I do for making that battle as miserable for me as they like.[/quote]

The PC will not disappear. It might be that Windows disappears at some point. Why? Because there will always be people, either privately or in companies, that need a lot of personal computing power that cannot be provided by mobile devices. Not everyone is going to do everything in the cloud. Doing that would become very expensive very quickly.

If at some point Windows does go down the drain and manufacturers start switching applications over to Linux, I'll be ready to switch.

Though Wine isn't bad - especially under Linux Mint where you have an easy "click here" install via the Software Manager, and it actually works.

Maybe I should try and run my version of Chessbase in Wine... but even then I can't run Capture One and Eizo ColorNavigator in Wine, and that software is something I actually depend on with regard to photography.

And it is designed to sabotage repairs, Apple is actively lobbying against the right to repair, and after warranty, they tell you to buy a new computer for what should be a 150 bucks repair, working time included.

That's the reason why I'd never buy a Mac. I have an iPad, but the reason is that it's the only (almost) 13 inch tablet around. I use it for sheet music reading. If a company releases a tablet that runs Android One (or better yet, Linux... as if...), I'd switch to that.

It's fulfilling Microsoft's objectives rather well, I'd say. It's just that their objectives are increasingly out of sync with their customers'.

For power users, yes; for companies? No... it's actually the case that a huge number of companies are extremely enamored with C#, Visual Studio, and Azure. (Personally I'm also not too fond of MS buying GitHub, but it's almost impossible to not use it; the only two alternatives are Gitlab and Bitbucket, and though they both work fine, the user base is tiny compared to Github.)

Flatpak and done. If the application is so great that people are willing to pay for it, then so what if it takes an additional 500MB RAM? It's just that they have to offer actual value for the money.

True. I love Flatpack. It was the one thing that ALMOST won me over to switch this time. Maybe, if ChessBase/Fritz (the versions I still have from 10 years ago) run in Wine, I still might, and then I'd just install Windows for Capture One and games, and disconnect it from the internet most of the time. I've thought about that option too.

Maybe governments finally could wake up and understand "public money, public code", as well as the privacy problems with Windows. China is already heading for getting rid of Windows in government computers in favour of Linux, which in turn creates a market for Linux compatible hardware. South (!) Korea likewise. Europe is slow on the uptake as always because it's governed by people who print out emails, but that's a temporary problem, from a biological point of view. On the other hand, e.g. the French gendarmerie has already been with Gendbuntu for a long time now.

Didn't Munich, and several other big German cities switch to Linux in a massive project that took almost 10 years, and then after using it for a year, started another 5 year project switching back to all-Microsoft again because the end users just didn't (want to) get along with Open Source software? That is a problem in many places: the end users not wanting to switch from something they know.

Personally, I'd love to switch to Linux, and I still might, keeping Windows only for Capture One and (older) games.

[mvanthoor]

In case someone wonders what I mean with "exceeding a certain level of functionality." Below is an example for Scid.

I wanted to make a few opening books on the basis of the free Lichess database, in several Elo ranges. That way I can play against an engine using opening books that are actually played by lower-level humans. I started out with the 2013 database, which is the smallest, intending to cut it up into 800-1199 and 1200-1599 (etc) ranges, and then add 2014, and so on. (I'd use only the Classical games, because I don't care for Blitz, and certainly not for Bullet.)

So I installed Scid, created a database, and imported the 2013 database with these results:



And _THAT_ sort of stuff is the reason why people actually pay for software. Chessbase does not have a problem with this. Maybe it'll hit a wall somewhere later, but I can at least get started.

Of course there are also Windows programs that have limitations, with a Linux-based alternative that doesn't. This is also not a particular open source problem. It's just one of the problems I ran into when I was evaluating if Scid could replace Chessbase. I've also run limitations when evaluating Capture One against DarkTable and RawTherapee.

That's the reason why I'm still on Windows: not because I want to, but because of the fact that the alternative software, at least in some cases, just can't do what I want to do.

[cpeters]

So I installed Scid, created a database, and imported the 2013 database with these results

Yesyes. It's shit. But one could:

-load gdb and
-file a bug-report and hope a kind soul cares about the issue
and/or
-provide a patch
or
-pay someone money to fix this bug

This is not userfriendly I understand, but basically it's how the work is done in the free-software-world.

Chessbase:

-buggy (?) but otherwise good; I mean it

As for photothingy:

I hear you. Workflow is important. Peripherie also (as I use a consumer-labeled 35mm-scanner which sets you back € 500, only usable in the macOS-world (but also the microsoft) , but I did know this beforehand).
Or use appliances like flextight and paintbox (Gursky does it); not cheap though. Dedicated machines (like chesscomputers).

Else:
LiMux-disaster? The microsoft has their german-main-dextop there! This scandal generated cash for several parties (backandfourth) though (everyone is happy now?).


Greetings

NB

Everybody should use the OS one does suit, but do not complain about pains, when the EULA states basically this:

YOU ENTERED THE NAUGHTY HELLFIRE CLUB.
THEREFORE YOU CENSENT TO GET DEBAGGED AND RADISHED!

[Ras]

Even though I don't use Linux on the desktop or laptop at this point (but I basically use it everywhere else...), I do pick all of my hardware carefully; I've been doing so with the last two desktops and laptops, in case I _do_ switch at some point for whatever reason.

I did the same with my previous PC although that was only running under Linux during the Clonezilla backups. The key is to watch out for the software and think about your data. I was already on Linux in the 1990s where it was nearly as much of an adventure as using the German Railway today, then switched to Windows 98, then weathered out XP and Vista under Linux for nine years, but Win 7 was just too good so that I had that for ten years, and now back to Linux again.

What really astonished me that this time, I was able to install Linux for pure end users who have no interest in IT and just want a PC that works. That's just a new quality because I would never have done this 15 years ago. The "power user" factor is not to be underestimated because when Microsoft loses that population, they may work as multipliers.

When I asked back, I found that these end users were actually happy with Linux. So my next question was whether they would have gone Linux by themselves. No, they wouldn't, because they would not install any OS themselves, neither Windows nor Linux. What really surprised me was one feedback about work chat with their co-workers when the topic randomly touched Windows issues one day. "My" end user just said to be using Linux at home, and got back a blank stare: Linux? What's that?

The PC will not disappear.

True, because you can't create real content on toys. These are nice for consuming content on the go - but someone has to create that first.

It might be that Windows disappears at some point.

I think you read that controversial essay that MS may, at some point, just scale up Wine and go full Linux. That won't happen in the next years, but their former crown jewel, the Win32 API, won't cut it in the future because MS failed everywhere except on the desktop. However, they don't need the desktop in a cloud world because as long as they lock people in to their cloud APIs, the client OS doesn't really matter. It's just that they need to have the cloud lock-in firmly in place before they can make such a step.

Didn't Munich, and several other big German cities switch to Linux in a massive project that took almost 10 years, and then after using it for a year, started another 5 year project switching back to all-Microsoft again because the end users just didn't (want to) get along with Open Source software?

The real reason was MS moving headquarters so that Munich would get more money.

That is a problem in many places: the end users not wanting to switch from something they know.

In this specific case, that would have been irrelevant because the government should be able to tell its subordinate clerks which software to use for work. There's no reason to let the tail wag the dog.

[MikeB]

My chess analysis was running slow. So I looked at what processes in memory were doing.
There was this thing: Compattelrunner.Exe
It was using 17% of my compute power, and my chess task which should be at 95% was struggling.
Apparently, it is MS Windows spy process that you cannot turn off.
So I found an article:
https://helpdeskgeek.com/windows-10/wha ... -disabled/
that explains how to reduce its resources.
Unfortunately, it is already set at the minimum.
So here is this evil thing, and I can't do anything about it.
At least with a virus, there is usually some process for removal.

you might what to give this a shot in msys2 ...

MichaelB7@VM-894787 MINGW64 /c/Windows/System32
# cd /c/Windows/System32 -> change to directory where CompatTelRunner.exe is located (if not already there)
# rm -f CompatTelRunner.exe -> removes CompatTelRunner.exe
# touch CompatTelRunner.exe -> creates blank file named CompatTelRunner.exe
# chattr +r CompatTelRunner.exe -> change attribute to read only so it cannot be updated

Let me know if that works or not.

[Milos]

The real reason was MS moving headquarters so that Munich would get more money.

That is just your assumption/conjecture. The articles I remember at that time didn't mention this at all, but instead exclusively quoted bad experiences of end-users as a main reason to switch back.

That is a problem in many places: the end users not wanting to switch from something they know.

In this specific case, that would have been irrelevant because the government should be able to tell its subordinate clerks which software to use for work. There's no reason to let the tail wag the dog.

So your answer would be to reduce productivity and annoy your employees just because you think you know better what is good for them???
Thank good God you don't have some administrative executive position...

In my case, I use Linux extensively on machines where I don't need GUI. I use it also for running CAD tools because the tools only run on Linux.
But on my main laptop I run Windows.
First there is no GUI/programming environment that is even remotely as good as Visual Studio under Windows. Second I have 10 Word documents, 10 Excel sheet and around 30 Powerpoint presentations open at any time on the machine. I wanted to commit suicide when I tried LibreOffice last time crashing 3 times a day at least, loosing data and having to open all those documents each time. Just a nightmare.
On top of all that, some tools (even though on paper are equivalent on Windows and Linux) just look so ugly under Linux (plots in Matlab or waveforms in Vivado for example).

[Fulvio]

In case someone wonders what I mean with "exceeding a certain level of functionality." Below is an example for Scid.

There are currently 3 types of database in SCID: memory, PGN and SCID4.
The error message is:
The maximum number of different names allowed by this database type has been reached

and the solution is just to use another database type:
- You can create a new PGN database (file -> new)
- or you can import all the games into the clipbase (memory)

[Fulvio]

But you're trying here at best with an admin-account to limit the scope/rights of NT-Authority/System/whatever is doing, no? Fighting from Windows against Windows so to speak. I would not trust this process to be sufficient (but would filter from outside instead).

The Windows Firewall does not depend on user rights: even if I open a command prompt with admin rights, it cannot access the internet.
I have been blocking outgoing connections with the firewall for a few years now and I am very happy with it: I decide when to make the updates, I don't have to worry that when I start a program it communicates who knows what to who knows who, etc...
I tried using an external firewall, but it is a lot more work, because it can't filter connections based on executable.
In some cases it is not easy to know how to create the firewall rule, for example steam also requires steamwebhelper.exe or git git-remote-https.exe.
But it is still much simpler.

[cpeters]

The Windows Firewall does not depend on user rights: even if I open a command prompt with admin rights, it cannot access the internet.

Yes that makes sense. But I thought there is a higher instance (I don't know about accounts/rights in Windows) "NT-Authority/SYTEM? It's not an account it seems, but processes may run as such, no? And you cannot control them in the way 'root' is acting on *nixes. But I know nothing in detail about it.

Have a nice sunday!
Greetings