so what is a fair GM handicap vs Rybka?

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an even match GM vs Rybka

pawn and move
12
52%
two pawns
3
13%
two pawns and move
3
13%
knight
3
13%
knight and move
2
9%
 
Total votes: 23

Cobweb

Re: so what is a fair GM handicap vs Rybka?

Post by Cobweb » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:18 pm

Well, I'm not sure how it affects Grandmasters whose chess skill is obviously on a totally different level to most of us, but actually starting a game where my opponent had a pawn or piece missing would totally confuse me!!

Some opening theory will have to go out of the window from move one as the player will need to reconsider many opening lines and in some respects this must negate the full value of the piece advantage. Take the first game - wouldn't any king side castling plans be a bit dodgy against that open rook file?

Wouldn't most human be placed a little off balance starting with an unfamiliar position piece odds gives or doesn't this affect Grandmasters at all? Anyway, it seems to me that although the human is starting with a material advantage, there could be some psychological and practical disadvantages for the human.

I think I'd prefer a normal position and give the computer some other disadvantage (don't know what though!! :oops: ...maybe have it simulataneously calculate a new prime number :twisted: )

ologist

Re: so what is a fair GM handicap vs Rybka?

Post by ologist » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:55 pm

Mike S. wrote:
Alkelele wrote: it will never be possible for engines to give GMs queen-odds.
Never say never. :roll: It sounds like opinions from the past, like

"Chess computers will never reach club player level."

After that has turned out wrong:

"But a chess program will never beat an IM..." (etc.)

Imagine somebody would have predicted in 1987, "a computer will give pawn odds to Ehlvest and win 3 games in a row!" Imagine the responses he might have got. :D
Man, you can't be serious with this post. I am just a club player and I am willing to bet my last right now that NO engine or GM and give me queen and win, or even draw. I might even be willing to bet on rook odds. Queen odds is just too much power, and there is no way this would ever happen, just the same as man will never be able to catch up with the speed of light. I will say never to both of these.

NKOTB

Re: so what is a fair GM handicap vs Rybka?

Post by NKOTB » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:59 pm

Hi Christopher, Same name as my son. If you think you can handle 'Rbyka' as a club player with rook odds, go ahead. GM's are getting crushed with pawn odds (resigned in 27 moves). It is an interesting challenge, at what point is it even against me (and others). I'll let you know in a week. Will be out of town.

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Mike S.
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Re: so what is a fair GM handicap vs Rybka?

Post by Mike S. » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:02 pm

ologist wrote: Man, you can't be serious with this post.
You too seem to read something which I have not written. I only recommend, never say never. I wouldn't bet my life on it that you can win against Rybka giving queen odds. But it's good to be self-confident as long as the risk is not too big.

It seems to me the risk was too big for Ehlvest. But he shows good spirit by continuing the match.
Regards, Mike

ologist

Re: so what is a fair GM handicap vs Rybka?

Post by ologist » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:02 pm

A rook is just too much power. I will try this when i get home this evening. All, I have to say is that if we trade queens, or i survive the transitional attack I will most likely beat it at rooks odds. I never said that I could bet it at rook odds, and in fact a knight or a bishop would be better since they are really what the engines attack with in the beginning.

ologist

Re: so what is a fair GM handicap vs Rybka?

Post by ologist » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:04 pm

If any 1400 or higher player cannot beat Rybka at queen odds they should simply quit chess. All you have to do it trade to queen for 2 pieces and destroy it. Very easy, and I will bet on it anytime some thrill seeker seeks a thrill :lol:


Mods: Sorry about the double post :oops:

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Mike S.
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Re: so what is a fair GM handicap vs Rybka?

Post by Mike S. » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:15 pm

ologist wrote: All you have to do it trade to queen for 2 pieces and destroy it.
You don't seem to have any idea what Rybka is, and can do.

Try it, and report back later :D but not on a 386, ok? I assume you know how to get PGN with complete calculation infos, to post here. No takebacks.
Regards, Mike

cooldalek

Re: so what is a fair GM handicap vs Rybka?

Post by cooldalek » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:17 pm

How do I play a game of rook odds against Rybka inside chessbase?

ologist

Re: so what is a fair GM handicap vs Rybka?

Post by ologist » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:23 pm

Mike S. wrote:
ologist wrote: All you have to do it trade to queen for 2 pieces and destroy it.
You don't seem to have any idea what Rybka is, and can do.

Try it, and report back later :D but not on a 386, ok? I assume you know how to get PGN with complete calculation infos, to post here. No takebacks.
Wow... I will even bet that I can beat it 3 times in a row. haha

To the poster above me, create a new position setup and just force the first move if you want Rybka to play white, of you make the first move if you want white. I think it is File>New>Position Setup or something like that.

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Mike S.
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Re: so what is a fair GM handicap vs Rybka?

Post by Mike S. » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:34 pm

ologist wrote: Wow... I will even bet that I can beat it 3 times in a row. haha
Ok... after thinking twice about it, I think anybody could do it - always. You know how. :roll: The challenge would make sense only if it's done in public, with audience and anti-cheat control.
Regards, Mike

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