Playing Ron Nelson Programs, Today

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Steve B

Re: Playing Ron Nelson Programs, Today

Post by Steve B » Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:58 am

Well i am not so sure about those little Opals being so weak Jon
especially the Star Opal
even Cameron is a bit surprised at its performance so far

i just played a game pitting the Star Opal against the Fidelity EAG v6
to even things out a bit i set the EAG to G/5Min and the SO to 30sec per move giving the SO White

here is the game..
forget the bizarre 7th move for the SO...forget the fact that it was the EAG that was out of book first at move 3!
lets skip right to the chase and join in the action after Whites 53rd move..shall we?



[Date "2007.4.10"]
[White "Star Opal"]
[Black "EAG V6"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.e3 Bb4+ 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.Nf3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Ne4 7.Rg1 Nxc3
8.Qc2 Ne4 9.Bd3 f5 10.cxd5 exd5 11.Bb2 c6 12.O-O-O Be6 13.g4 fxg4
14.Bxe4 dxe4 15.Qxe4 Qd5 16.Qxd5 Bxd5 17.Ne5 h5 18.Ng6 Rh6 19.Ne5 Rf6
20.Rd2 Bxa2 21.Rc2 a5 22.Rg3 Bb3 23.Rc3 Bd5 24.e4 Bxe4 25.Rge3 Bd5
26.Nxg4+ Re6 27.Rxe6+ Bxe6 28.Re3 Ke7 29.Ba3+ Kf7 30.Ne5+ Kg8 31.Bc5 Bf5
32.h4 Na6 33.Bb6 Nb4 34.Rb3 Na2+ 35.Kd2 a4 36.Rb2 Be6 37.Bc5 Bb3 38.f4
Ra6 39.f5 b5 40.Rb1 b4 41.Nd3 Ra5 42.Re1 Rb5 43.Re8+ Kh7 44.Nf4 Bf7
45.Rc8 Nc3 46.Rxc6 a3 47.Kd3 Nd5 48.Nh3 Kh8 49.Rc8+ Bg8 50.Ng5 Nf4+
51.Ke4 a2 52.Nf7+ Kh7 53.Ng5+

[D] 2R3b1/6pk/8/1rB2PNp/1p1PKn1P/8/p7/8 b - - 0 53

its a Draw!
if Black tries 53..Kh6 then its mate in 5!
(54.Kxf4! Rxc5 55.Rxg8 Rc8 56.Rxc8 g6 57.f6 a1=Q 58.Rh8#)

..53 Kh8 54.Nf7+ Kh7 55.Ng5+ Kh8 1/2-1/2

FINAL POSITION

[D] 2R3bk/6p1/8/1rB2PNp/1p1PKn1P/8/p7/8 w - - 0 56

Pretty Impressive If You Ask Me Regards
Steve

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fern
Posts: 8755
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:07 pm

Re: Playing Ron Nelson Programs, Today

Post by fern » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:49 am

There is an ugly reason for those incredible bad results. Novag is trying to cater almost only to those that are nasty chess players, but good enough in his job to have money enough to purchase the nasty computers. This people get enchanted and enthusiasm other people to get them. They also buy the stuff to his kids. They buy the new one. ETC.
They know, in Novag, that the already seasoned player is OR using good machines OR using PC programs. Why to bother with them? They means bad business. They already had a miserable experience with saphire, a good computer.
SO...
They take good, old Kittinger programs and...
CRIPPLE THEM
...and next Xmats season you have brisk sells.

Good Business not Always Equate with Good Chess regards
Fernando

JonP01

Re: Playing Ron Nelson Programs, Today

Post by JonP01 » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:35 am

Hi Fernando,

I am very well known to Australia's Novag distributor, as I have been a customer of his for just on 25 years (he runs a retail store as well). In my most recent conversation with him, he told me that far and away his best selling Novag machines are the Carnelian II and Star Opal. Infact he was about to order another shipment of them at the time I was there. He tells me that sales of these 16K machines far outstrip sales of the 32K units,let alone top of the line units that I hear shift at a rate of about one unit every few months or so.

You are quite correct. I imagine 99% of serious players are only interested in PC software these days. I'll often be at the store when someone comes in wanting a Novag. In all cases they have happily walked away with one of these 16K machines, since they are usually casual players or buying a machine for someone who is.

Much to SteveB's horror, I have been quietly dissuading our Novag distributer from buying a massive crate full of Novag Citrines that I know are going to sit there in his store. Whilst Steve reels in horror at this example of schachcomputer blasphemy, the economics are simple. No one down here is going to buy one. Well, that is perhaps hyperbole, but we are a big country with a tiny population. At this point, I think we have negotiated that he just buy 5 of them, so as to test the waters and satisfy the insatiable appetities of the two people who will actually consider buying one.

Donning Nomex Suit Regards

Jonathan

Steve B

Re: Playing Ron Nelson Programs, Today

Post by Steve B » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:08 pm

hi Jon

i have to tell you i am VERY impressed with the little Star Opal
Hallsworth rates it something like 40 Elo stronger then the Opal Plus

it seems to play very weakly once out of book but then a bit stronger in the middle game and really hangs on tenaciously in the endgame
its well worth the small price


as to Le Citrine..well it is selling like wildfire in the USA and Canada and from what i hear Niggemann sold out of them within weeks in Europe

i would imagine they should sell well "Down Under" as well

the difference i think is that many people from Europe and North America come to the CCC( as members or lurking guests) and read all of the posts about it and get interested in it and decide to go and buy one
while i think that very few "Mates" from "Down under" visit the CCC


your job if you really want the Citrine to catch on for Parr is to get more members to join up here from Australia ,New Zealand and Tasmania
Have A nice Day Regards
Steve

JonP01

Re: Playing Ron Nelson Programs, Today

Post by JonP01 » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:24 pm

Hi Steve,

I'll camp outside the steps to Parr's dungeon in my winter woolies and beanie, together with a bottle of alcohol in brown paper bag (for the full effect of course). A couple of days without shaving should help too. As each passer by goes down those steps I'll tell 'em that CCC wants conscripts. If that doesn't work I'll draw lots by birthday. I hope the server doesn't topple over from the strain of all that extra bandwidth in light of these sure-fire evangelistic efforts.

Pie in the sky Regards

Jonathan

Steve B

Re: Playing Ron Nelson Programs, Today

Post by Steve B » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:50 pm

JonP01 wrote:Hi Steve,

I'll camp outside the steps to Parr's dungeon in my winter woolies and beanie, together with a bottle of alcohol in brown paper bag (for the full effect of course). A couple of days without shaving should help too. As each passer by goes down those steps I'll tell 'em that CCC wants conscripts. If that doesn't work I'll draw lots by birthday. I hope the server doesn't topple over from the strain of all that extra bandwidth in light of these sure-fire evangelistic efforts.

Pie in the sky Regards

Jonathan
hi Jon
That sounds like a fine plan!
as Winter is quickly approaching the Land Of OZ i suggest you double your efforts

Peter is the one who will benefit greatly from your efforts so may i suggest you receive a 50% commission on all Citrine units sold from hereon-in?

Helpful Regards
Steve

klute

Re: Playing Ron Nelson Programs, Today

Post by klute » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:39 am

Hi Steve

I too am quite impressed with the Star Opal considering what it is - a kind of impulse buy machine rather than something one consciously saves up for. I got mine from Peter as part of a package deal with a ChessBase 9 upgrade - almost tossed in as a freebie.

In my view it's clearly stronger than the Opal Plus, more so than Novag's 20 claimed points would indicate. It still makes horrific blunders now and then, but not as frequently as Opal Plus seemed to. Tactically it's pretty sharp for the modest hardware. Positionally it's nothing amazing but we're not talking big Holz and megabucks here. For a small plastic unit it's very stylish and Kittinger's funky book makes for interesting openings.

Speaking of Holz, my brother's theory about the market potential (or lack thereof) in Australia is an interesting one.

Cameron

Steve B

Re: Playing Ron Nelson Programs, Today

Post by Steve B » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:06 pm

klute wrote:Hi Steve

I too am quite impressed with the Star Opal considering what it is - a kind of impulse buy machine rather than something one consciously saves up for. I got mine from Peter as part of a package deal with a ChessBase 9 upgrade - almost tossed in as a freebie.

In my view it's clearly stronger than the Opal Plus, more so than Novag's 20 claimed points would indicate. It still makes horrific blunders now and then, but not as frequently as Opal Plus seemed to. Tactically it's pretty sharp for the modest hardware. Positionally it's nothing amazing but we're not talking big Holz and megabucks here. For a small plastic unit it's very stylish and Kittinger's funky book makes for interesting openings.

Speaking of Holz, my brother's theory about the market potential (or lack thereof) in Australia is an interesting one.

Cameron
yup the Star Opal is a really pleasant surprise
to bad Jon wasted his hard earned money on that good for nothing DTTC 404D when he could have had the Star Opal instead

Sigh Regards
Steve
:wink:

klute

Re: Playing Ron Nelson Programs, Today

Post by klute » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:34 pm

Hi Steve

Interesting - but what Schachcomputer bauble could I offer in exchange? It would seem that a Winter 2007 expedition to Peter's would be called for, but the effort required - establishment of base camp, the recruitment of sherpas that must be fed and clothed - bottled oxygen for the uppermost reaches of Peter's store room. Not to mention the ever present risk of a horrible death, crushed in an avalanche of Travel Masters.

I fear I am not the man I once was. Last year I was the answer to life, the universe and everything...but now I am 43.

Weary Bones Regards

Cameron

Steve B

Re: Playing Ron Nelson Programs, Today

Post by Steve B » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:40 pm

klute wrote:Hi Steve

Interesting - but what Schachcomputer bauble could I offer in exchange? It would seem that a Winter 2007 expedition to Peter's would be called for, but the effort required - establishment of base camp, the recruitment of sherpas that must be fed and clothed - bottled oxygen for the uppermost reaches of Peter's store room. Not to mention the ever present risk of a horrible death, crushed in an avalanche of Travel Masters.

I fear I am not the man I once was. Last year I was the answer to life, the universe and everything...but now I am 43.

Weary Bones Regards

Cameron
Hi Cameron

you are feeling the years now more so because you no longer have the "Ring Of Power" in your possession


email me privately and we will conduct this multi-million dollar transaction in peace and quiet

Bilbo Baggins Sends His Regards
Steve

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