sandro Necchi wrote:
I personally believe the overall judgement of a program should include also the options it is offering and not only the strenght itself.
That is true - plus as has already been pointed out, Stefan offers a lot of other stuff. On-line tablebases, on-line games against Shredder, he provides real-time updates on tournament games, and let's not forget the fine GUI - although it does lack some things...
If we all only bought one chess program a year, then the price is OK. Trouble is when you buy many programs a year you start to question it. That's when things get very expensive, but that's a different issue.
Shredder has a very professional feel to it, and Stefan's whole approach is very professional. He and his team do a good job.
Cubeman wrote:There is a difference maybe because Anthony Cozzie has stopped programming chess engines and so does not care about making a financial living from this pursuit.Where as SMK has continued to work on Shredder and deserves the most that he can get.Money is the incentive for him to keep on improving and good on him.
If 100 elo improvement is the result of stopping to program then it may be better if SMK also stop programming.
I find it hard to believe that SMK works full time job on shredder and get almost no improvement when Anthony Cozzie stopped programming and got 100 elo improvement in the same time.
Stopping programming is also not a reason not to prefer to earn as much as possible from what you programmed in the past so claiming that anthony does not care about money because he stopped programming is not convincing.
Uri
Uri,
most customers do not look for strenght only, but for strenght with options. The UCI GUI is simply fantastic for all the options it offers and does not have problems at all contrary to other guys. You can run 32 bit versions as well as 64 bit version with matches etc...full options.
Now, SMK is supplying as free update a version which is fully compatible with Vista.
I think this shows caring about the customers and not the opposite.
We are working to make the program stronger and SMK said Shredder 11 will be released this summer.
How can people know he is not making any progress if they do not see the experimental versions as I do?
Why people do not talk about what they know rather than what they do not know?
Ciao
Sandro
Hi Sandro,
People are never satisfied, you know. They always want something more and more. Now that they have been charmed with the Rybka monster, they don't want to sense the logic. As to a professional like me, the new Shredder is very, very good. He has made a big leap in performance. And I even think he is on a par with Rybka 2.3 or even stronger in some positions. True, Shredder 10.1 started playing much stronger in tactical positions. I always wanted him to play like that! Because chess is nothing more than 90% tactics. Still, he's become much stronger in endgames too, although that component has always been his good merit. In other words, I like the new Shredder version a lot and thank you, Sandro and Steffan, for the nice job you've done. Send all the phony critics to hell now and keep on that right track. Sherdder 10.1 is great and I will surely look forward to Shredder 11 with great anticipation! Good luck, Sandro!
Cubeman wrote:There is a difference maybe because Anthony Cozzie has stopped programming chess engines and so does not care about making a financial living from this pursuit.Where as SMK has continued to work on Shredder and deserves the most that he can get.Money is the incentive for him to keep on improving and good on him.
If 100 elo improvement is the result of stopping to program then it may be better if SMK also stop programming.
I find it hard to believe that SMK works full time job on shredder and get almost no improvement when Anthony Cozzie stopped programming and got 100 elo improvement in the same time.
Stopping programming is also not a reason not to prefer to earn as much as possible from what you programmed in the past so claiming that anthony does not care about money because he stopped programming is not convincing.
Uri
Uri,
most customers do not look for strenght only, but for strenght with options. The UCI GUI is simply fantastic for all the options it offers and does not have problems at all contrary to other guys. You can run 32 bit versions as well as 64 bit version with matches etc...full options.
Now, SMK is supplying as free update a version which is fully compatible with Vista.
I think this shows caring about the customers and not the opposite.
We are working to make the program stronger and SMK said Shredder 11 will be released this summer.
How can people know he is not making any progress if they do not see the experimental versions as I do?
Why people do not talk about what they know rather than what they do not know?
Ciao
Sandro
Hi Sandro,
People are never satisfied, you know. They always want something more and more. Now that they have been charmed with the Rybka monster, they don't want to sense the logic. As to a professional like me, the new Shredder is very, very good. He has made a big leap in performance. And I even think he is on a par with Rybka 2.3 or even stronger in some positions. True, Shredder 10.1 started playing much stronger in tactical positions. I always wanted him to play like that! Because chess is nothing more than 90% tactics. Still, he's become much stronger in endgames too, although that component has always been his good merit. In other words, I like the new Shredder version a lot and thank you, Sandro and Steffan, for the nice job you've done. Send all the phony critics to hell now and keep on that right track. Sherdder 10.1 is great and I will surely look forward to Shredder 11 with great anticipation! Good luck, Sandro!
Broombox wrote:
Shredder is very, very good. He has made a big leap in performance. And I even think he is on a par with Rybka 2.3 or even stronger in some positions.
I do not claim something bad about shredder but
being stronger than rybka2.3 in some positions is an easy target because rybka2.3 has bugs and there are positions when she cannot see the right move because of bugs.
Broombox wrote:
Shredder is very, very good. He has made a big leap in performance. And I even think he is on a par with Rybka 2.3 or even stronger in some positions.
I do not claim something bad about shredder but
being stronger than rybka2.3 in some positions is an easy target because rybka2.3 has bugs and there are positions when she cannot see the right move because of bugs.
Uri
No engine is bugfree. What you claim for Rybka applies to Shredder as well.
I disagree that Shredder is on par with Rybka yet.
Broombox wrote:
Because chess is nothing more than 90% tactics.
From what I've seen in the tournaments where I have played....80% of today's games are strategical!
Then you didn't play in the right tournaments. Lol! Check the games played by Nezhmetdinov, Tal, Bronstein, Tolush of the previous times or by Morozevich, Shirov, Carlsen of the recent ones.
Broombox wrote:
Shredder is very, very good. He has made a big leap in performance. And I even think he is on a par with Rybka 2.3 or even stronger in some positions.
I do not claim something bad about shredder but
being stronger than rybka2.3 in some positions is an easy target because rybka2.3 has bugs and there are positions when she cannot see the right move because of bugs.
Uri
No engine is bugfree. What you claim for Rybka applies to Shredder as well.
I disagree that Shredder is on par with Rybka yet.
Best,
Daniel
The claim was that shredder is stronger than rybka in some positions.
I think that this claim is correct for every engine so it is meaningless.
Even movei is stronger than rybka in some positions and I do not need to look for serious bugs.
There are test positions that movei is faster than rybka in them and if I play a match with the right time control from the relevant positions then movei can beat rybka.
