New Error novag CITRINE ??? book. 5. Tg1 ??? and lost Pawn.

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Karmazen & Oliver
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:34 pm

New Error novag CITRINE ¡¡¡ book. 5. Tg1 ??? and lost Pawn.

Post by Karmazen & Oliver » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:58 am

New Error novag CITRINE ¡¡¡ book. 5. Tg1 ??? and lost a Central Pawn & lost too 0-0. ( free cost, ;-) )

( 1. e4, e5; 2. Ac4, Cf6; 3. d4, exd4; 4. Cf3, Cc6; 5. Tg1 ??? & lost pawn.. BUG )

hello, friends

Here, I write about a new BUG on CITRINE, open ( book ) again. in this case is the "open bishop" in this case NOVAG can not say that is a rare open chess. I think that the solution to have a "big" book not it insert in the book BAD moves, (to have 24.000, better 12.000 if are goods, or nothing better too ), because these moves not permit that citrine think about other move better... move directly, not think ... nothing... although CITRINE levels up... time...
GO to the theme:

chess open: "open bishop"

white: CITRINE
black: Human ( Karmazen ~ Oliver )

1. e4, e5; ( ok if citrine not play e4, runs new again or force it)

2. Ac4, Cf6; ( ok, if citrine not play Ac4 force it and after this citrine plays with black Cf6, ok, we up-down black king so that CITRINE plays with white, ... this test only evaluate book on line 1. e4, e5 ; 2. Ac4 (this open is very common or habitual, not it as strange as 1. e3 or the other line bug in Cxe4 and lost knight...)

3. d4, e5xd4;
4. Cf3, ...

( ok this is theory moves, you can see books of teory chess, similar: "Batsford´s Modern Chess Opening 14 edition", year 2000 by Nick Firmian, in my book of "Aperturas Modernas de Ajedrez" Nick de Firmian, 2002 Edit TUTOR S.A, I can read on pag 153 (line 4-5 two lines about all These correct moves...)

in this moment we move now:

4. ... , Cc6 and... CITRINES do ... ( not think only read book ¡ )

5. Tg1 ??? ----- and lost pawn e4 and bad position to play... CITRINE evaluate bad for citrine on -1.33 after go out book...)

a true position disaster .. because we made this move 4. ... , Cc6 not habitual ? ... if in real books of papers, the theory that we can read: 4. ... , Cxe4 or 4. ... , exd4 or 4. ... , d5 this last move was play n 1970 Laes - Flores, Corr; for example.

I play that move because if after move 4. Cf3. ( citrine ) we force move citrine with black too, ( up-down king ), ( to see which is the move favorite on book citrine ) ... CITRINE chooses 4. ..., Cc6 ?¡ ( not is the better but is save in the book citrine... )... and after this we up-down king again to citrine play with white, we see that the NEXT move is a " BIG and enormous" BUG ... ¡¡¡ 5. Tg1 ??

maybe... the sleeping programmer of citrine was thinking in other game that not similar chess ? maybe DOMINO ? or "GO" but not Tg1 ? for chess game ? maybe on lottery runs perfect ... but the books of computers chess not do this way ...

it is difficult to justify this move ( in book =) that more late development piece white, citrine can not 0-0 after this and that the same CITRINE values it as advantageous for the black player ...

OK... maybe some player can test this too ... ;-)
bye, Oliver.
_________________

PD: at the end it will be but didactics this computer chess for their errors that for their successes... to train ... ;-)

inf link: http://meca.mundoforo.com/aqui-vp732.html#732 (spanish)

Steve B

Re: New Error novag CITRINE ¡¡¡ book. 5. Tg1 ??? and lost Pa

Post by Steve B » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:25 am

hi Oliver

Perfect(as usual) North American Citrine plays from book.. 5.0-0

have a nice day regards
Steve
Last edited by Steve B on Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Karmazen & Oliver
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:34 pm

Re: New Error novag CITRINE ¡¡¡ book. 5. Tg1 ??? and lost Pa

Post by Karmazen & Oliver » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:33 am

Steve B wrote:hi OLIVER

Perfect(as usual) North American Citrine plays from book.. 5.0-0

have a nice day regards
Steve
of course Steve... I´m not ----. but Oliver is enough if you want you can write: Oliver & ----- if you knows somebody name ------

I´m thinking that "all errors" in books previus CITRINE was "repared" in version 1.07 of citrines... maybe it´s posible that that "news" citrine have down 24.000 positions, maybe novag reinstalled a "book more small" but with not errors books...

I like more my book citrine, because I like a lot "find" errors BUGS ;-)

I will know if other Citrines not "repared" (version 1.00 or 1.01) have this situation too...

don´t worry but this is " a bad info for novag job"...

;-)
Last edited by Karmazen & Oliver on Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

Steve B

Re: New Error novag CITRINE ¡¡¡ book. 5. Tg1 ??? and lost Pa

Post by Steve B » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:35 am

oh sorry but

i wrote Oliver

look again!

:wink:

Steve

Karmazen & Oliver
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:34 pm

Re: New Error novag CITRINE ¡¡¡ book. 5. Tg1 ??? and lost Pa

Post by Karmazen & Oliver » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:45 am

of course... of course but I´m go to change it in comand "quote" ;-)

bye

Robert Weck
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:19 am

Re: New Error novag CITRINE ¡¡¡ book. 5. Tg1 ??? and lost Pa

Post by Robert Weck » Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:25 am

Karmazen & Oliver wrote: white: CITRINE
black: Human ( Karmazen ~ Oliver )

1. e4, e5; ( ok if citrine not play e4, runs new again or force it)

2. Ac4, Cf6; ( ok, if citrine not play Ac4 force it and after this citrine plays with black Cf6, ok, we up-down black king so that CITRINE plays with white, ... this test only evaluate book on line 1. e4, e5 ; 2. Ac4 (this open is very common or habitual, not it as strange as 1. e3 or the other line bug in Cxe4 and lost knight...)
but does Citrine play 2.Bc4 actively or do you always have to force it? If the latter is the case, then i would say: who cares?

If i was forced to play something like Blackmar-Diemer or so, i surely would also play sh...! :wink:

So i simply don't play it! :P

And why should it be different with chess computers? :D


I will try it with my Star Ruby...


Robert

Steve B

Re: New Error novag CITRINE ¡¡¡ book. 5. Tg1 ??? and lost Pa

Post by Steve B » Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:33 am

Robert Weck wrote:
Karmazen & Oliver wrote: white: CITRINE
black: Human ( Karmazen ~ Oliver )

1. e4, e5; ( ok if citrine not play e4, runs new again or force it)

2. Ac4, Cf6; ( ok, if citrine not play Ac4 force it and after this citrine plays with black Cf6, ok, we up-down black king so that CITRINE plays with white, ... this test only evaluate book on line 1. e4, e5 ; 2. Ac4 (this open is very common or habitual, not it as strange as 1. e3 or the other line bug in Cxe4 and lost knight...)
but does Citrine play 2.Bc4 actively or do you always have to force it? If the latter is the case, then i would say: who cares?

If i was forced to play something like Blackmar-Diemer or so, i surely would also play sh...! :wink:

So i simply don't play it! :P

And why should it be different with chess computers? :D


I will try it with my Star Ruby...


Robert
i enjoy OLIVERS posts about ALL of the defects in his Citrine
it makes me appreciate mine even more
so much so that i am seriously thinking of buying another one
:wink: Regards
Steve


Karmazen & Oliver
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:34 pm

Re: New Error novag CITRINE ¡¡¡ book. 5. Tg1 ??? and lost Pa

Post by Karmazen & Oliver » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:57 pm

of course that not is the solution for the problem...

the question is ? why book novag have some lines in book ( not best lines to play for citrine, ok... but that not is the question ), the REAL question is why some moves permit that CITRINE lost pawn central, or other pieces... (and novag can not think nothing about it ¡? )

I write to NOVAG Boos and they say me that these lines are in "MODE RANDOM LEVEL 3", I don´t think that... but ....

although that certain, (that is not it for the first citrine versions), I´m sure that my citrine are in best lines moves, the only change is that I play first 2.Ac4, and after this play with black... to see 5. Tg1 ???, 0-0 is a bad move too...), was it doesn't make sense that puts under an obligation to citrine to play those lines so bad ...

also, when I send a mail (warn) about the first failure 1. e3, e5; 2. d4 & crash.. they recognized that that was a BUG... obviously CITRINE would never play 1.e3 with the best lines of book you activate yourself, "random 0"; if before that was a programming error, this new bug is also it.

bye bye, since spain..

maybe some clients of the first version can check it...

Steve, when we can have a "Revelation" Phoenix Chess Systems, I think that the best of the word computer chess dedicated, have a better books... and we can change IT ¡

bye bye. since spain ;-)

oliver

Steve B

Re: New Error novag CITRINE ¡¡¡ book. 5. Tg1 ??? and lost Pa

Post by Steve B » Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:02 pm

Karmazen & Oliver wrote:
Steve, when we can have a "Revelation" Phoenix Chess Systems, I think that the best of the word computer chess dedicated, have a better books... and we can change IT ¡

bye bye. since spain ;-)

oliver
yes of course this is true OLIVER
but you know Revelation is costing 2500 Euro

for $350 ..Citrine is allowed not so perfect books
:wink:


goodbye from The Big Apple Regards
Steve

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