Collector's Corner...Six Years Ago..

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Steve B

Collector's Corner...Six Years Ago..

Post by Steve B »

This position appeared in Selective Search N0.93(Apr.-May 2001)

[D] rnk5/8/1p6/pP1Q4/P5p1/6P1/5K2/3b4 w - - 0 0


With white to move most top PC engines of the day played the blunder 1.Qxa8??
and after 1..Bf3! the white Queen is trapped and out of play resulting in a drawn game(2.Qa7 Nd7)

the winning move is for white to play 1.Qxd1 which does not leave white up heavily in material but it is a slow clear win

oddly..i tried this position on the Novag Amber and it instantly(!) rejects Qxa8 and wants to play Qxd1 and stays with it for 10 full minutes

however i cannot sing the praises of the little Amber too loudly because after i make the move for white 1.Qxa8 Amber does not play 1.Bf3 but rather 1. Bxa4??(also after 10 minutes) allowing the white Q to escape to D5

i imagine most Pc Engines of today will play 1.Qxd1 as white and after 1.Qxa8 they will trap the queen with 1..Bf3

but i wonder what the newer dedicated computers of today will play here as White and as Black after 1.Qxa8?

Smothered Regards
Steve
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MikeB
Posts: 4889
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:34 am
Location: Pen Argyl, Pennsylvania

Re: Collector's Corner...Six Years Ago..

Post by MikeB »

Steve B wrote:This position appeared in Selective Search N0.93(Apr.-May 2001)

[D] rnk5/8/1p6/pP1Q4/P5p1/6P1/5K2/3b4 w - - 0 0

but i wonder what the newer dedicated computers of today will play here as White and as Black after 1.Qxa8?

Smothered Regards
Steve

Steve
Novag Citrine running Rybka with 8 Cores through Arena ona PC takes abouyt a 1/4 second..

Code: Select all

FEN: [d]rnk5/8/1p6/pP1Q4/P5p1/6P1/5K2/3b4 w - - 0 1 

Rybka v2.3.1.mp.x64:
   2	00:00.014	         356	364.544	+3.64	Qd5xa8
   3	00:00.125	         587	601.088	+3.52	Qd5xa8
   4	00:00.140	         922	55.536	+3.52	Qd5xa8 Bd1xa4 Qa8d5 Nb8d7 Qd5c4+
   5	00:00.140	       1.390	43.132	+3.89	Qd5xa8 Bd1f3 Qa8a7 Nb8d7 Kf2e3 Bf3b7 Ke3f4 Kc8c7 Kf4f5 Nd7c5
   6	00:00.140	       2.221	68.918	+3.76	Qd5xa8 Bd1f3 Qa8a7 Nb8d7 Kf2e3 Bf3b7 Ke3f4 Kc8c7 Kf4f5 Nd7c5
   7	00:00.155	       3.324	103.144	+3.68	Qd5xa8 Bd1f3 Qa8a7 Nb8d7 Kf2e3 Bf3b7 Ke3f4 Kc8c7 Kf4f5 Nd7c5
   8	00:00.155	       5.237	162.505	+3.39	Qd5xa8 Bd1f3 Qa8a7 Nb8d7 Kf2e3 Bf3b7 Ke3f4 Kc8c7 Kf4f5 Nd7c5
   9	00:00.170	      17.268	368.384	+3.53	Qd5xa8 Bd1f3 Qa8a7 Nb8d7 Kf2e3 Bf3b7 Ke3f4 Kc8c7 Kf4f5 Nd7c5
  10	00:00.202	      27.634	358.192	+3.11	Qd5xa8 Bd1f3 Qa8a7 Nb8d7 Kf2e3 Bf3b7 Ke3f4 Kc8c7 Kf4f5 Nd7c5
  11	00:00.233	      58.022	535.266	+2.95	Qd5xa8 Bd1f3 Qa8a7 Nb8d7 Kf2e3 Bf3b7 Ke3f4 Kc8c7 Kf4f5 Nd7c5
  11	00:00.250	     125.142	740.724	+3.16	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  12	00:00.312	     149.134	748.594	+3.22	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  13	00:00.468	     352.698	768.431	+3.22	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  14	00:04.234	   3.732.244	902.223	+3.71	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  15	00:08.906	   7.856.217	903.094	+3.71	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  16	00:15.281	  12.895.085	868.492	+3.74	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  17	00:42.717	  38.355.226	919.376	+3.83	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  18	00:47.311	  42.129.382	911.791	+4.10	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  19	01:10.874	  61.515.929	888.956	+4.20	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  20	01:20.656	  70.715.347	897.772	+4.38	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  21	01:22.920	  72.655.439	897.370	+4.25	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  22	01:26.670	  76.126.622	899.399	+4.24	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  23	01:27.905	  77.326.035	900.735	+4.38	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  24	01:35.514	  83.376.571	893.847	+4.30	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  25	01:41.967	  88.716.039	891.041	+4.38	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  26	08:24.827	 458.801.358	930.637	+4.42	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  27	11:38.734	 537.425.711	787.599	+4.53	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6
  28	19:37.468	 943.196.522	820.272	+4.59	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 Qe4c6+
  29	26:07.203	1.163.796.623	760.438	+4.73	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 Qe4c6+ Kd6e7 Kf2g2 Nd7c5 Qc6c7+ Nc5d7


saw that nobody else posted a response regards,

Michael
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rightrook
Posts: 1452
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:45 pm

Re: Collector's Corner...Six Years Ago..

Post by rightrook »

Hi Steve...

I think this is too difficault for any portable to find..

Even Junior 5 plays QxR...and does not forsee....Bf3.

Novag Sap 2 plays
...QxB at just 2 ply..but then plays Bxa4..and never finds Bf3...etc.

regards

Rob

Neat test, nevertheless.... :lol:
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Cubeman
Posts: 644
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:11 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Collector's Corner...Six Years Ago..

Post by Cubeman »

I tested my PDA programs on this and got the following.
Toga ll 1.2.1a first of all liked 1Qxa8 and saw the Bf3 continuation but still kept 1Qxa8 for about 2min30sec then it changed to 1Qxd1 Nd7,2Qxg4 etc at D=15.
Fruit 2.1 was very similar to Toga but found Qxd1 in 1min43sec at D=14.
PocketFritz2 was the best and liked Qxd1 from the very start and when I play Qxa8 it immeaditly went for Bf3 and even show a negative score for White!Of course White can just hold after Qa7 Nd7 Ke3 Bb7! Kf4 Kc7 Kxg4 Nc5 Kf5 Nxa4 g4 Nc3 g5 Nxb5 Qxb7 Kxb7 g6 Nd6+ =.
Hiarcs 9.6 was good at the start liking Qxd1 then Qxa8 then back to Qxd1 then at D=11 and 79 seconds it goes back to Qxa8? and here it stays for over an hour and D=14 as it thinks the continuation will be Bxa4 Qd5 Nd7.
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Steve B

Re: Collector's Corner...Six Years Ago..

Post by Steve B »

Cubeman wrote:I tested my PDA programs on this and got the following.
Toga ll 1.2.1a first of all liked 1Qxa8 and saw the Bf3 continuation but still kept 1Qxa8 for about 2min30sec then it changed to 1Qxd1 Nd7,2Qxg4 etc at D=15.
Fruit 2.1 was very similar to Toga but found Qxd1 in 1min43sec at D=14.
PocketFritz2 was the best and liked Qxd1 from the very start and when I play Qxa8 it immeaditly went for Bf3 and even show a negative score for White!Of course White can just hold after Qa7 Nd7 Ke3 Bb7! Kf4 Kc7 Kxg4 Nc5 Kf5 Nxa4 g4 Nc3 g5 Nxb5 Qxb7 Kxb7 g6 Nd6+ =.
Hiarcs 9.6 was good at the start liking Qxd1 then Qxa8 then back to Qxd1 then at D=11 and 79 seconds it goes back to Qxa8? and here it stays for over an hour and D=14 as it thinks the continuation will be Bxa4 Qd5 Nd7.
Thanks Alex

so even the programs of today struggle somewhat with this position

very interesting Regards
Steve
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Steve B

Re: Collector's Corner...Six Years Ago..

Post by Steve B »

rightrook wrote:Hi Steve...

I think this is too difficault for any portable to find..

Even Junior 5 plays QxR...and does not forsee....Bf3.

Novag Sap 2 plays
...QxB at just 2 ply..but then plays Bxa4..and never finds Bf3...etc.

regards

Rob

Neat test, nevertheless.... :lol:
thanks for giving it a whirl Rob!
Steve
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Steve B

Re: Collector's Corner...Six Years Ago..

Post by Steve B »

MikeB wrote:
Steve B wrote:This position appeared in Selective Search N0.93(Apr.-May 2001)

[D] rnk5/8/1p6/pP1Q4/P5p1/6P1/5K2/3b4 w - - 0 0

but i wonder what the newer dedicated computers of today will play here as White and as Black after 1.Qxa8?

Smothered Regards
Steve

Steve
Novag Citrine running Rybka with 8 Cores through Arena ona PC takes abouyt a 1/4 second..

Code: Select all

FEN: [d]rnk5/8/1p6/pP1Q4/P5p1/6P1/5K2/3b4 w - - 0 1 

Rybka v2.3.1.mp.x64:
   2	00:00.014	         356	364.544	+3.64	Qd5xa8
   3	00:00.125	         587	601.088	+3.52	Qd5xa8
   4	00:00.140	         922	55.536	+3.52	Qd5xa8 Bd1xa4 Qa8d5 Nb8d7 Qd5c4+
   5	00:00.140	       1.390	43.132	+3.89	Qd5xa8 Bd1f3 Qa8a7 Nb8d7 Kf2e3 Bf3b7 Ke3f4 Kc8c7 Kf4f5 Nd7c5
   6	00:00.140	       2.221	68.918	+3.76	Qd5xa8 Bd1f3 Qa8a7 Nb8d7 Kf2e3 Bf3b7 Ke3f4 Kc8c7 Kf4f5 Nd7c5
   7	00:00.155	       3.324	103.144	+3.68	Qd5xa8 Bd1f3 Qa8a7 Nb8d7 Kf2e3 Bf3b7 Ke3f4 Kc8c7 Kf4f5 Nd7c5
   8	00:00.155	       5.237	162.505	+3.39	Qd5xa8 Bd1f3 Qa8a7 Nb8d7 Kf2e3 Bf3b7 Ke3f4 Kc8c7 Kf4f5 Nd7c5
   9	00:00.170	      17.268	368.384	+3.53	Qd5xa8 Bd1f3 Qa8a7 Nb8d7 Kf2e3 Bf3b7 Ke3f4 Kc8c7 Kf4f5 Nd7c5
  10	00:00.202	      27.634	358.192	+3.11	Qd5xa8 Bd1f3 Qa8a7 Nb8d7 Kf2e3 Bf3b7 Ke3f4 Kc8c7 Kf4f5 Nd7c5
  11	00:00.233	      58.022	535.266	+2.95	Qd5xa8 Bd1f3 Qa8a7 Nb8d7 Kf2e3 Bf3b7 Ke3f4 Kc8c7 Kf4f5 Nd7c5
  11	00:00.250	     125.142	740.724	+3.16	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  12	00:00.312	     149.134	748.594	+3.22	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  13	00:00.468	     352.698	768.431	+3.22	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  14	00:04.234	   3.732.244	902.223	+3.71	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  15	00:08.906	   7.856.217	903.094	+3.71	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  16	00:15.281	  12.895.085	868.492	+3.74	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  17	00:42.717	  38.355.226	919.376	+3.83	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  18	00:47.311	  42.129.382	911.791	+4.10	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  19	01:10.874	  61.515.929	888.956	+4.20	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  20	01:20.656	  70.715.347	897.772	+4.38	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  21	01:22.920	  72.655.439	897.370	+4.25	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  22	01:26.670	  76.126.622	899.399	+4.24	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  23	01:27.905	  77.326.035	900.735	+4.38	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  24	01:35.514	  83.376.571	893.847	+4.30	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  25	01:41.967	  88.716.039	891.041	+4.38	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  26	08:24.827	 458.801.358	930.637	+4.42	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6 g6g7 Rb8g8
  27	11:38.734	 537.425.711	787.599	+4.53	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 g4g5 Nd7e5 g5g6 Kd6e6
  28	19:37.468	 943.196.522	820.272	+4.59	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 Qe4c6+
  29	26:07.203	1.163.796.623	760.438	+4.73	Qd5xd1 Nb8d7 Qd1xg4 Ra8b8 Qg4e4 Kc8c7 g3g4 Kc7d6 Qe4c6+ Kd6e7 Kf2g2 Nd7c5 Qc6c7+ Nc5d7


saw that nobody else posted a response regards,

Michael
Thanks Mike

EIGHT CORES???
:shock:

they go that high now??

what do you get on ICC with an 8 CORE Rybka?

1 gabillion nodes per second??

Cripes Regards
Steve
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