10th aniversery of deep blue win: interesting news article

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ozziejoe
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10th aniversery of deep blue win: interesting news article

Post by ozziejoe » Wed May 09, 2007 9:27 am

Check it out

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs ... BUSINESS01



here is an interesting quote from that article-

"Chess isn't on the radar of computer science challenges anymore, he said, as the focus has turned to new technologies, like Google."

bob
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Re: 10th aniversery of deep blue win: interesting news artic

Post by bob » Thu May 10, 2007 12:17 am

ozziejoe wrote:Check it out

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs ... BUSINESS01



here is an interesting quote from that article-

"Chess isn't on the radar of computer science challenges anymore, he said, as the focus has turned to new technologies, like Google."
\

The thing that most amazes me is that supposedly Kasparov claims he has never been able to look at the deep blue logs. Even though they were (and still are) available on the web. I could email 'em to him if he would shut that claim up. :)

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Leto
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Re: 10th aniversery of deep blue win: interesting news artic

Post by Leto » Thu May 10, 2007 12:28 am

It's a foregone conclusion that Deep Blue wasn't very strong, clearly weaker than today's top engines, and that Kasparov could have played much better. Psychology definitely played a large role in that match.

Terry McCracken

Re: 10th aniversery of deep blue win: interesting news artic

Post by Terry McCracken » Thu May 10, 2007 1:26 am

Leto wrote:It's a foregone conclusion that Deep Blue wasn't very strong, clearly weaker than today's top engines, and that Kasparov could have played much better. Psychology definitely played a large role in that match.
Deep Blue was very strong, but I agree, Kasparov was psyched out.

Deep Blue played 2800+ tactics, but positionally it wasn't a strong GM, but how may computers are in that area??

Terry

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Re: 10th aniversery of deep blue win: interesting news artic

Post by MikeB » Thu May 10, 2007 1:29 am

Leto wrote:It's a foregone conclusion that Deep Blue wasn't very strong, clearly weaker than today's top engines, and that Kasparov could have played much better. Psychology definitely played a large role in that match.
Agreed. In hindsight, it was a shame that Deep Blue won because that apparently killed the series and then Kasparov's childish claims sealed the deal for no future events. In my judgement now, Deep Blue got lucky in the sense that Kasparov was really off form and psyched himself out that Deep Blue was "all knowing".

It will never happen, but I would like to see Rybka entered in the World Championship match series and let's see what it can do. That would create a lot of interest I think.

It my opinion , Deep Blue was NOT a better chess player than Kasparov when it won a 6 game match against Kasparov. Rybka on the other hand, running on a high end machine, could possibly be better then the human Wolrd Chess Champion today.

Agree/Disagree?

Terry McCracken

Re: 10th aniversery of deep blue win: interesting news artic

Post by Terry McCracken » Thu May 10, 2007 1:38 am

MikeB wrote:
Leto wrote:It's a foregone conclusion that Deep Blue wasn't very strong, clearly weaker than today's top engines, and that Kasparov could have played much better. Psychology definitely played a large role in that match.
Agreed. In hindsight, it was a shame that Deep Blue won because that apparently killed the series and then Kasparov's childish claims sealed the deal for no future events. In my judgement now, Deep Blue got lucky in the sense that Kasparov was really off form and psyched himself out that Deep Blue was "all knowing".

It will never happen, but I would like to see Rybka entered in the World Championship match series and let's see what it can do. That would create a lot of interest I think.

It my opinion , Deep Blue was NOT a better chess player than Kasparov when it won a 6 game match against Kasparov. Rybka on the other hand, running on a high end machine, could possibly be better then the human Wolrd Chess Champion today.

Agree/Disagree?
I don't think better, but more consistent. If a GM trained for months to play the computer, abandoning all else then the GM should win.

GM's are far smarter at the game, but computers seem to put too much strain on them in a public match.

Too bad...

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Leto
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Re: 10th aniversery of deep blue win: interesting news artic

Post by Leto » Thu May 10, 2007 1:46 am

MikeB wrote:
Leto wrote:It's a foregone conclusion that Deep Blue wasn't very strong, clearly weaker than today's top engines, and that Kasparov could have played much better. Psychology definitely played a large role in that match.
Agreed. In hindsight, it was a shame that Deep Blue won because that apparently killed the series and then Kasparov's childish claims sealed the deal for no future events. In my judgement now, Deep Blue got lucky in the sense that Kasparov was really off form and psyched himself out that Deep Blue was "all knowing".

It will never happen, but I would like to see Rybka entered in the World Championship match series and let's see what it can do. That would create a lot of interest I think.

It my opinion , Deep Blue was NOT a better chess player than Kasparov when it won a 6 game match against Kasparov. Rybka on the other hand, running on a high end machine, could possibly be better then the human Wolrd Chess Champion today.

Agree/Disagree?
Well you saw what Deep Fritz 10 did against the human World Chess Champion. Kramnik was reduced to playing ultra defensive openings, and he completely crumbled in the final game. Deep Fritz 10 is a top engine, but definitely not in the same league as Rybka or even Zanzibar or Hiarcs 11.1.

Rybka apparently will be playing an $11,000 match against a top Grandmaster very soon in an attempt to prove that Grandmasters have no chance against it unless she is handicapped. Rybka will be reduced to a 3-move book in this match.
http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... d=794;pg=1

Terry McCracken

Re: 10th aniversery of deep blue win: interesting news artic

Post by Terry McCracken » Thu May 10, 2007 2:21 am

Leto wrote:
MikeB wrote:
Leto wrote:It's a foregone conclusion that Deep Blue wasn't very strong, clearly weaker than today's top engines, and that Kasparov could have played much better. Psychology definitely played a large role in that match.
Agreed. In hindsight, it was a shame that Deep Blue won because that apparently killed the series and then Kasparov's childish claims sealed the deal for no future events. In my judgement now, Deep Blue got lucky in the sense that Kasparov was really off form and psyched himself out that Deep Blue was "all knowing".

It will never happen, but I would like to see Rybka entered in the World Championship match series and let's see what it can do. That would create a lot of interest I think.

It my opinion , Deep Blue was NOT a better chess player than Kasparov when it won a 6 game match against Kasparov. Rybka on the other hand, running on a high end machine, could possibly be better then the human Wolrd Chess Champion today.

Agree/Disagree?
Well you saw what Deep Fritz 10 did against the human World Chess Champion. Kramnik was reduced to playing ultra defensive openings, and he completely crumbled in the final game. Deep Fritz 10 is a top engine, but definitely not in the same league as Rybka or even Zanzibar or Hiarcs 11.1.

Rybka apparently will be playing an $11,000 match against a top Grandmaster very soon in an attempt to prove that Grandmasters have no chance against it unless she is handicapped. Rybka will be reduced to a 3-move book in this match.
http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... d=794;pg=1
You give these primitive engines too much credit......It's unbelievable how weak players can understand why top GM's fail :roll:

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Leto
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Re: 10th aniversery of deep blue win: interesting news artic

Post by Leto » Thu May 10, 2007 3:03 am

Terry McCracken wrote:
Leto wrote:
MikeB wrote:
Leto wrote:It's a foregone conclusion that Deep Blue wasn't very strong, clearly weaker than today's top engines, and that Kasparov could have played much better. Psychology definitely played a large role in that match.
Agreed. In hindsight, it was a shame that Deep Blue won because that apparently killed the series and then Kasparov's childish claims sealed the deal for no future events. In my judgement now, Deep Blue got lucky in the sense that Kasparov was really off form and psyched himself out that Deep Blue was "all knowing".

It will never happen, but I would like to see Rybka entered in the World Championship match series and let's see what it can do. That would create a lot of interest I think.

It my opinion , Deep Blue was NOT a better chess player than Kasparov when it won a 6 game match against Kasparov. Rybka on the other hand, running on a high end machine, could possibly be better then the human Wolrd Chess Champion today.

Agree/Disagree?
Well you saw what Deep Fritz 10 did against the human World Chess Champion. Kramnik was reduced to playing ultra defensive openings, and he completely crumbled in the final game. Deep Fritz 10 is a top engine, but definitely not in the same league as Rybka or even Zanzibar or Hiarcs 11.1.

Rybka apparently will be playing an $11,000 match against a top Grandmaster very soon in an attempt to prove that Grandmasters have no chance against it unless she is handicapped. Rybka will be reduced to a 3-move book in this match.
http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... d=794;pg=1
You give these primitive engines too much credit......It's unbelievable how weak players can understand why top GM's fail :roll:
You give the human brain too much credit. I've realized for years now that just as you can't expect a human to outrun a car, you can't expect a human to outplay a top chess engine.
Terry wrote:
If a GM trained for months to play the computer, abandoning all else then the GM should win.
You apparently think that it's possible to find a flaw with the engine which the GM can then exploit repeatedly. The chances of that happening are about zero. Even in the unlikely case that it were to happen, all it would take is a simple opening change to ensure it doesn't fall for the GM's prepared trap.

Terry McCracken

Re: 10th aniversery of deep blue win: interesting news artic

Post by Terry McCracken » Thu May 10, 2007 4:43 am

Leto wrote:
Terry McCracken wrote:
Leto wrote:
MikeB wrote:
Leto wrote:It's a foregone conclusion that Deep Blue wasn't very strong, clearly weaker than today's top engines, and that Kasparov could have played much better. Psychology definitely played a large role in that match.
Agreed. In hindsight, it was a shame that Deep Blue won because that apparently killed the series and then Kasparov's childish claims sealed the deal for no future events. In my judgement now, Deep Blue got lucky in the sense that Kasparov was really off form and psyched himself out that Deep Blue was "all knowing".

It will never happen, but I would like to see Rybka entered in the World Championship match series and let's see what it can do. That would create a lot of interest I think.

It my opinion , Deep Blue was NOT a better chess player than Kasparov when it won a 6 game match against Kasparov. Rybka on the other hand, running on a high end machine, could possibly be better then the human Wolrd Chess Champion today.

Agree/Disagree?
Well you saw what Deep Fritz 10 did against the human World Chess Champion. Kramnik was reduced to playing ultra defensive openings, and he completely crumbled in the final game. Deep Fritz 10 is a top engine, but definitely not in the same league as Rybka or even Zanzibar or Hiarcs 11.1.

Rybka apparently will be playing an $11,000 match against a top Grandmaster very soon in an attempt to prove that Grandmasters have no chance against it unless she is handicapped. Rybka will be reduced to a 3-move book in this match.
http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... d=794;pg=1
You give these primitive engines too much credit......It's unbelievable how weak players can understand why top GM's fail :roll:
You give the human brain too much credit. I've realized for years now that just as you can't expect a human to outrun a car, you can't expect a human to outplay a top chess engine.

Nonsense! Maybe your brain :roll: You analogy, which has been used overly used is specious, the comparisons flawed.
Terry wrote:
If a GM trained for months to play the computer, abandoning all else then the GM should win.
You apparently think that it's possible to find a flaw with the engine which the GM can then exploit repeatedly. The chances of that happening are about zero. Even in the unlikely case that it were to happen, all it would take is a simple opening change to ensure it doesn't fall for the GM's prepared trap.
No, that is not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying given time the GM would adapt his or hers play accordingly, which would fit computer play at the expense of his/her human training.

GM's are far too good to need to set traps, that's an insult to all GM's! This really shows the lack of understanding you have about grandmaster play!

You give computers too much credit. Of course they chew you up, but you're more than 5 classes lower than a GM!

Much weaker players just don't get it!

You can't judge GM play when you're 1000 to 1400 points weaker!

In fact, until you reach 2300 you don't even understand all the basics :roll:

It's time you got out of your cage!

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