To put everything into place with Strelka

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GenoM
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Re: To put everything into place with Strelka

Post by GenoM » Thu May 10, 2007 5:07 pm

Hey Christopher

and what is the name of clone immortal made?
Just curious.
take it easy :)

Gerd Isenberg
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Re: To put everything into place with Strelka

Post by Gerd Isenberg » Thu May 10, 2007 5:12 pm

ed wrote:In an honest world you are absolutely right.

Compare the situation you going for high placed position in society, I am sure you would not object your credentials are checked, a normal and general accepted procedure. Your future boss wouldn't hire you if you have a criminal record. And so it is in this case. The past has shown too much betray and a checking procedure is needed to keep the computer chess community clean.

In Cologne 1986 I had to hand over my sources to the ballotage commission in order to enter the WCCC. It was not funny, but hey, not the end of the world either.

Ed
Hi Ed,

this is perfectly ok, if you play official icga tournaments like world championships. But if some experienced russian programmer offers a free engine, this is another issue. Especially if a honored programmer like Sergei S. Markoff acts as a guarantor, that it is very likely original work.

So far i saw a lot of public premature suspicions here, very unfriendly tone or even chauvinism against Sergei or russians in general. I agree with Rolf and Fernando about the reverse justice as well.

Cheers,
Gerd

Tony Thomas

Re: To put everything into place with Strelka

Post by Tony Thomas » Thu May 10, 2007 5:20 pm

GenoM wrote:Hey Christopher

and what is the name of clone immortal made?
Just curious.
He used to have a site that supplied clones. Isnt that enough?

Christopher Conkie
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Re: To put everything into place with Strelka

Post by Christopher Conkie » Thu May 10, 2007 5:27 pm

Tony Thomas wrote:
GenoM wrote:Hey Christopher

and what is the name of clone immortal made?
Just curious.
He used to have a site that supplied clones. Isnt that enough?
He still has a site that distributes every (and i really mean every) commercial chess engine.

All Lokasoft.
All ChessBase
All Convekta.

He has a forum also that distributes private engines that he was never given.

He distributes in that very thread an engine called "Rocket" which he claims is a new version.

"Rocket" is nothing more than Rybka.

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GenoM
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Re: To put everything into place with Strelka

Post by GenoM » Thu May 10, 2007 5:30 pm

Tony i am not native english speaker but even i understand that there is difference between 'cloner' and 'software pirate'
So my advise to Christofer was to use correct words but he didnt listen to me :-)
take it easy :)

Uri Blass
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Re: To put everything into place with Strelka

Post by Uri Blass » Thu May 10, 2007 5:39 pm

Daniel Mehrmann wrote:
Sergei Markoff wrote:
Daniel Mehrmann wrote:Ok, please tell me about your practise work in this cases.

If you analyzing a game played by Movei and you're walking through new variants to look on what happend there , maybe changing stuff in search, doing the same again and again and again. You know what i mean how this process works ;)

How do you do that ?
Simply using search with infinite (or almost infinite) time.
infinite == analyze ;)

Then you need to support a lot of WB2 commands like "?", "force", "undo" during running search...

A lazy boy, like me, i'm lazy as well ;), would not add it because it more complicated as the easy analyze run ;)

I don't know much about you, but it seems that you're not a brother of "Mr. Spock" :lol: :wink:

But its ok of course, its just a choose of taste.

Best whishes,
Daniel

ps: My engine has a different handling between analyze mode and infinite search btw (most common technical stuff), so i wouldn't get same results...
This is not correct that infinite=analysis

in infinite mode the engine is going to play when it finds mate or get the maximal depth or in book.
In analysis mode it is not going to do it.

I implemented ? and force even before implementing analysis.

Uri

Dann Corbit
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Re: To put everything into place with Strelka

Post by Dann Corbit » Thu May 10, 2007 6:22 pm

Uri Blass wrote:
Christopher Conkie wrote:
Sergei Markoff wrote:The talk is over.
That's up to you. Until then Strelka is over too.

A photo of someone pointing at a laptop does not cut it.

If you know that Strelka is an original work (I hope so too) then there are some questions that need answered by some supporting evidence.

You can see many programmers here wonder about what is known due to others efforts and those questions have not been answered at all.

Regards

Christopher
I disagree.
I am sure that sergei convinced part of the posters that strelka is not a clone.

He also changed my opinion about it(I am not claiming to know that it is not a clone but the probability that I give to the claim that it is a clone was reduced to less than 50%)

People are free to decide if to test it in games.

Uri
If Brian Hoffman makes an executable, he will clearly know it is not a clone and that will end all questions.

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mariaclara
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Re: To put everything into place with Strelka

Post by mariaclara » Thu May 10, 2007 6:37 pm

:D
Hi Tony,

...........................................does it matter if Chris doesnt believe? :?:

y waste time :?:

if it works, it works :wink: :wink: :wink:

hehehe....... :oops: :oops: :oops:
.
.

................. Mu Shin ..........................

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Leto
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Re: To put everything into place with Strelka

Post by Leto » Thu May 10, 2007 6:42 pm

mariaclara wrote::D
Hi Tony,

...........................................does it matter if Chris doesnt believe? :?:

y waste time :?:

if it works, it works :wink: :wink: :wink:

hehehe....... :oops: :oops: :oops:
Hi Maria :D

I completely agree.

ed

Re: To put everything into place with Strelka

Post by ed » Thu May 10, 2007 6:57 pm

Hi Gerd,

I disliked it very much when I was forced to handover my sources back in 1986. Suppose I hadn't done it (and it's certainly against my rebellious nature to comply to demands) and this fact would have become public knowledge when I entered the commercial market as it happened back then about 5-6 months later, can you imagine the gossip and suspect?

Fortunately I had a good advisor in the person of Jan Louwman who convinced me to give in. Meaning to say, sometimes you have to be a bit flexible and pragmatic in life. And that's the advice I am giving the Russian programmer. It would be a shame if the name of his engine would be contaminated forever because of some temporarily feelings pride and stubbornness. And that's not worth the trouble on long term.

Real justice is in heaven, not on planet Earth.

Ed

Gerd Isenberg wrote:
ed wrote:In an honest world you are absolutely right.

Compare the situation you going for high placed position in society, I am sure you would not object your credentials are checked, a normal and general accepted procedure. Your future boss wouldn't hire you if you have a criminal record. And so it is in this case. The past has shown too much betray and a checking procedure is needed to keep the computer chess community clean.

In Cologne 1986 I had to hand over my sources to the ballotage commission in order to enter the WCCC. It was not funny, but hey, not the end of the world either.

Ed
Hi Ed,

this is perfectly ok, if you play official icga tournaments like world championships. But if some experienced russian programmer offers a free engine, this is another issue. Especially if a honored programmer like Sergei S. Markoff acts as a guarantor, that it is very likely original work.

So far i saw a lot of public premature suspicions here, very unfriendly tone or even chauvinism against Sergei or russians in general. I agree with Rolf and Fernando about the reverse justice as well.

Cheers,
Gerd

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