Page 4 of 4

Re: Strelka: Justice in Reverse

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:30 pm
by kerostave
P.S.: By the way, I think it is time to apologize for almost every programmer that get by accident on any clone list. Why ? Well, most sources were never checked, so according to Fernandos logic we should remove them IMMEDIATELY from the hall of shame and instead put them on the hall of fame. I have especially Patriot here in mind. But also La Grande, La Petite, Voyager, Lord King, Ocha, OldBlindDog, Siboney, Deep <9>, Azaad, Bionic, Capachess, Christine_T, Confess, Dick Skinner, Enano, Goofy, Gnd0 (Syed Kamall Basar), HardwareHarveyX55, Hydra, Kerostave, LuiZa, Moga, Monster, Nr5, Peter, Quaestor V (José F. Zenon), Rashess, Rocket, Rucsil, Sally6, Squash, Tec_Kika, Tommy, Tuxedo, Ultima & Wincraft - and of course some countless accused TSCP clones. It was never proven.
Thomas i really like tocongratulate you for recognizing that some engines were unfairly labeled as clones.
This gesture shows the kind of person you are.
Thanks.

Happy Holidays
Kerostave

Re: Strelka: Justice in Reverse

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:34 pm
by Steve B
kerostave wrote:
P.S.: By the way, I think it is time to apologize for almost every programmer that get by accident on any clone list. Why ? Well, most sources were never checked, so according to Fernandos logic we should remove them IMMEDIATELY from the hall of shame and instead put them on the hall of fame. I have especially Patriot here in mind. But also La Grande, La Petite, Voyager, Lord King, Ocha, OldBlindDog, Siboney, Deep <9>, Azaad, Bionic, Capachess, Christine_T, Confess, Dick Skinner, Enano, Goofy, Gnd0 (Syed Kamall Basar), HardwareHarveyX55, Hydra, Kerostave, LuiZa, Moga, Monster, Nr5, Peter, Quaestor V (José F. Zenon), Rashess, Rocket, Rucsil, Sally6, Squash, Tec_Kika, Tommy, Tuxedo, Ultima & Wincraft - and of course some countless accused TSCP clones. It was never proven.
Thomas i really like tocongratulate you for recognizing that some engines were unfairly labeled as clones.
This gesture shows the kind of person you are.
Thanks.

Happy Holidays
Kerostave
Curious post
you are a new member and have made all of one post and yet you reply to a thread more then 21/2 years old

Steve

Re: Strelka: Justice in Reverse

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:36 pm
by Harvey Williamson
lol yes I remember someone almost crashing me on Playchess when I had my FX55 then his engine was this - HardwareHarveyX55- but hey sure it could be genuine :)

Re: Strelka: Justice in Reverse

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:36 pm
by bob
kerostave wrote:
P.S.: By the way, I think it is time to apologize for almost every programmer that get by accident on any clone list. Why ? Well, most sources were never checked, so according to Fernandos logic we should remove them IMMEDIATELY from the hall of shame and instead put them on the hall of fame. I have especially Patriot here in mind. But also La Grande, La Petite, Voyager, Lord King, Ocha, OldBlindDog, Siboney, Deep <9>, Azaad, Bionic, Capachess, Christine_T, Confess, Dick Skinner, Enano, Goofy, Gnd0 (Syed Kamall Basar), HardwareHarveyX55, Hydra, Kerostave, LuiZa, Moga, Monster, Nr5, Peter, Quaestor V (José F. Zenon), Rashess, Rocket, Rucsil, Sally6, Squash, Tec_Kika, Tommy, Tuxedo, Ultima & Wincraft - and of course some countless accused TSCP clones. It was never proven.
Thomas i really like tocongratulate you for recognizing that some engines were unfairly labeled as clones.
This gesture shows the kind of person you are.
Thanks.

Happy Holidays
Kerostave
One correction. Le Petite, Voyager, other Crafty clones _were_ proven to be clones explicitly. I posted the comparisons here in fact, with detailed comparisons and analysis to show beyond any doubt they were copies of Crafty. So no "hall of fame" for those morons.

Re: Strelka: Justice in Reverse

Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:03 pm
by Guenther
kerostave wrote:
P.S.: By the way, I think it is time to apologize for almost every programmer that get by accident on any clone list. Why ? Well, most sources were never checked, so according to Fernandos logic we should remove them IMMEDIATELY from the hall of shame and instead put them on the hall of fame. I have especially Patriot here in mind. But also La Grande, La Petite, Voyager, Lord King, Ocha, OldBlindDog, Siboney, Deep <9>, Azaad, Bionic, Capachess, Christine_T, Confess, Dick Skinner, Enano, Goofy, Gnd0 (Syed Kamall Basar), HardwareHarveyX55, Hydra, Kerostave, LuiZa, Moga, Monster, Nr5, Peter, Quaestor V (José F. Zenon), Rashess, Rocket, Rucsil, Sally6, Squash, Tec_Kika, Tommy, Tuxedo, Ultima & Wincraft - and of course some countless accused TSCP clones. It was never proven.
Thomas i really like tocongratulate you for recognizing that some engines were unfairly labeled as clones.
This gesture shows the kind of person you are.
Thanks.

Happy Holidays
Kerostave
...and even after that looong time you did not understand one yota of Thomas post.

<quote>
Well, most sources were never checked, so according to Fernandos logic
</quote>

...this simply means the opposite of what you thought he meant, because
he considered Fernandos 'logic' illogic(which is no surprise of course,
because he is neither a programmer nor a computerchess expert)
and most programs above even were simply 1:1 renamed copies...

You obviously just made up for a troll account...

Guenther

Re: Strelka: Justice in Reverse

Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:15 pm
by Albert Silver
I'm afraid you may be confusing with Robbo. The author of Strelka admitted he had reverse engineered Rybka.

Re: Strelka: Justice in Reverse

Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:21 pm
by slobo
Thomas Mayer wrote:Hi Eelco,
Eelco de Groot wrote:Hello Thomas,

Just a word of concern: if we could keep the discussions civil please. I think we basically all want the same and that is a fair review of a new,- and free!-, engine and a beginning author, and it is not helping anybody if we start accusing each other of knowing nothing about this hobby of ours.

Continuing in this fashion will probably mean that Graham as a moderator has to spend his Sunday again in editing all the Strelka threads and I think that would be a shame. Personally I think it is about time to end starting new threads about this, and stop repeating the same arguments without any new views, at least no new views that I can see in this matter.

Emotions are obvious on both "sides" and that only shows that we care about computerchess and basically about the same things.

Thank you very much,

Eelco
just to start with: I do not stand on any side - since Dann & Brian have said that it is no clone - it is no clone, period.

well, you miss two facts here: WHEN did I post these positions ? Well, friday evening. So clearly BEFOR they checked the engines. And WHEN did he answer ? On SUNDAY !!!! NOW since everything is clear, he starts to attack those which found strange things. Very brave, very clever...

Well and then his statement is fully wrong. Of course everything is the same except in one position where only the behaviour is equal. So if he doesn't understand that he better keeps silent.

It might be to complicate for Leto, but look at those too positions:

[D]8/3N4/8/8/1pp5/brpp4/qpprp3/1nkbK3 w - - 3 13

[D]8/3N4/8/8/1pp5/brpp3p/qpprp2P/1nkbK3 w - - 0 1

Nr ONE is not solved by either Rybka nor Strelka, so it's obvious that there is some problem with Zugzwang.
Nr TWO is solved by BOTH Rybka & Strelka, and that is really strange, because in fact it is the SAME Zugzwang problem, so far I only know engines which either solve BOTH or none of them. This IS exceptional. It has to do with null move verification and/or when to turn of null move. But of course that seems to be all to complicate for Mr. Atreides.

In fact, Mr. Atreides hadn't looked at ALL on my positions, instead he simply wrote a stupid posting because he was so happy that he could kick now on everybody who was suspicious. (Besides, a lot of programmers were suspicious and a lot of well known experts, but of course Mr. Atreides did know everything better from he beginning) So NOW please tell me how should I react on that, thank you.

That was my last posting on that idiocy. When you want to delete that, do it.

Greets, Thomas

P.S.: By the way, I think it is time to apologize for almost every programmer that get by accident on any clone list. Why ? Well, most sources were never checked, so according to Fernandos logic we should remove them IMMEDIATELY from the hall of shame and instead put them on the hall of fame. I have especially Patriot here in mind. But also La Grande, La Petite, Voyager, Lord King, Ocha, OldBlindDog, Siboney, Deep <9>, Azaad, Bionic, Capachess, Christine_T, Confess, Dick Skinner, Enano, Goofy, Gnd0 (Syed Kamall Basar), HardwareHarveyX55, Hydra, Kerostave, LuiZa, Moga, Monster, Nr5, Peter, Quaestor V (José F. Zenon), Rashess, Rocket, Rucsil, Sally6, Squash, Tec_Kika, Tommy, Tuxedo, Ultima & Wincraft - and of course some countless accused TSCP clones. It was never proven.
You should not think about yourself as a "clones hunter". If a cloner does not sell his product, if he does not participate in chess tournaments, why are you so eager do expose people who experient with open source codes as "cloners"?