Thomas, don't go!

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Kirill Kryukov
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Thomas, don't go!

Post by Kirill Kryukov » Thu May 31, 2007 6:50 am

I've been enjoying Toga for a while now. It is one of the coolest things happening in computer chess last years. I want to say big Thank You for all excitement and joy I had with it. It will be a huge loss if the development should stop.

Toga is second strongest Free Single-CPU engine, in our 40/40 and 40/4 lists. It is clear #1 open source single-CPU engine in both our lists. Also it is #4 single-CPU engine in both our 40/40 and 40/4, ahead of many commercial entries developed full-time for years! This all is simply incredible! This is great achievement and more important than WCCC, at least to me (because the results are based on thousands of games while WCCC outcome is random). Of course other lists and testers have similar picture to show.

I realize that it owes it to Fabien too. It is totally fine to reuse open source code. I myself use code of others and share some of my code too (not chess engine code). This is communication in good spirit, and it is fun. Of course some programmers are upset by being beaten, such is life. There are much larger number of computer chess fans who just enjoy every strong engine.

Don't go, Thomas! Keep the fun going on here! My 2 cents. Waiting eagerly for 1.3 release. :)

Best,
Kirill

Cubeman
Posts: 644
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:11 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Thomas, don't go!

Post by Cubeman » Thu May 31, 2007 7:32 am

I agree.Have been using the free Toga ll 1.2.1a for my PPC and find it the best PDA program so far, not just in results but also the style of play.

Tony Thomas

Re: Thomas, don't go!

Post by Tony Thomas » Thu May 31, 2007 12:32 pm

I feel the same way as well Kirill. All the ones that are attacking him are player haters, have some sportsman spirit people. :wink:

Steve B

Re: Thomas, don't go!

Post by Steve B » Thu May 31, 2007 12:45 pm

even we here in the sequestered Collectors Corner thank Thomas for his work on Toga
it is one of the few Engines incorporated into the Resurrection I modules with Thomas's permission of course
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/cpaa2@sbcgl ... 6875266/13

The Resurrection II Modules will be released within two weeks and will still have Toga in them in addition to another added engine

Best Regards
Steve

Stan Arts

Re: Thomas, don't go!

Post by Stan Arts » Thu May 31, 2007 2:32 pm

Tony Thomas wrote:I feel the same way as well Kirill. All the ones that are attacking him are player haters, have some sportsman spirit people. :wink:

Sportsmanship is not:

Having a boatrace, most participants build the boat entirely themselves and as means of propulsion most start off with a sail because it's not so easy to ironcast a motor, etc. But another participant, not quite in the spirit of the race, starts off with a ready made 4000 BHP catamaran powerboat (with some rough edges still, it's quite new), that he tweaks and irons out the rough edges a little bit so he has 4050 BHP.

Quite an achievement.

Very sportive.

Stan

Ps. The crowd however is deeply amazed, "4050 BHP! He must be a genius!"

Tony Thomas

Re: Thomas, don't go!

Post by Tony Thomas » Thu May 31, 2007 3:44 pm

Stan Arts wrote:
Tony Thomas wrote:I feel the same way as well Kirill. All the ones that are attacking him are player haters, have some sportsman spirit people. :wink:

Sportsmanship is not:

Having a boatrace, most participants build the boat entirely themselves and as means of propulsion most start off with a sail because it's not so easy to ironcast a motor, etc. But another participant, not quite in the spirit of the race, starts off with a ready made 4000 BHP catamaran powerboat (with some rough edges still, it's quite new), that he tweaks and irons out the rough edges a little bit so he has 4050 BHP.

Quite an achievement.

Very sportive.

Stan

Ps. The crowd however is deeply amazed, "4050 BHP! He must be a genius!"
The numbers should be more like 2750HP to 2850HP. Are you able to make that kind of progress to that boat? I never said he was a genius, I think that he was successful in his goal to significantly improve the engine. If you dont think a 100 HP improvement is significant then let me know what would be a significant improvement, talking about the boat of course. :wink:

K I Hyams
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Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:21 pm

Re: Thomas, don't go!

Post by K I Hyams » Thu May 31, 2007 3:46 pm

Stan Arts wrote:
Tony Thomas wrote:I feel the same way as well Kirill. All the ones that are attacking him are player haters, have some sportsman spirit people. :wink:

Sportsmanship is not:

Having a boatrace, most participants build the boat entirely themselves and as means of propulsion most start off with a sail because it's not so easy to ironcast a motor, etc. But another participant, not quite in the spirit of the race, starts off with a ready made 4000 BHP catamaran powerboat (with some rough edges still, it's quite new), that he tweaks and irons out the rough edges a little bit so he has 4050 BHP.

Quite an achievement.

Very sportive.

Stan

Ps. The crowd however is deeply amazed, "4050 BHP! He must be a genius!"
I find your post puzzling Mr Arts. I haven't read CCC for some time and during the time that I have been away, I would have expected fundamental issues of this type to have been addressed so thoroughly as to make your post redundant. As this does not appear to be the case, perhaps you would be kind enough to clarify the following issues for me:

I assume that you would have no objection to 2 programmers working on an engine jointly if they state in the notes that this is what they have done. If this is the case, why would you object to one programmer working on an engine after another programmer has left it, if he states clearly that this is what he has done?

Your Ps appears to imply that you have a doubt about the reading ability of CCC readers. It may also be interpreted as casting a smear on the motives of Mr Gatsch. Is either of these the case?

Christopher Conkie
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Go Quickly and Quietly.....Shut the door after you......

Post by Christopher Conkie » Thu May 31, 2007 4:04 pm

K I Hyams wrote: I assume that you would have no objection to 2 programmers working on an engine jointly if they state in the notes that this is what they have done. If this is the case, why would you object to one programmer working on an engine after another programmer has left it, if he states clearly that this is what he has done?
That is not true.

Thomas did not tell anyone that Toga was Fruit until after it had been independently discovered as a plagiarism.

This point is seemingly completely lost on most in here.

Ask yourself one simple question. If Toga had not been discovered at all as being Fruit, do you think you would be any the wiser now?

Do you think he would have told anyone?

Toga is a clone.

Full stop.

Christopher
Last edited by Christopher Conkie on Thu May 31, 2007 4:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Tony Thomas

Re: Go Quickly and Quietly.....Shut the door after you......

Post by Tony Thomas » Thu May 31, 2007 4:10 pm

Christopher Conkie wrote:
K I Hyams wrote: I assume that you would have no objection to 2 programmers working on an engine jointly if they state in the notes that this is what they have done. If this is the case, why would you object to one programmer working on an engine after another programmer has left it, if he states clearly that this is what he has done?
That is not true.

Thomas did not tell anyone that Toga was Fruit until after it had been independently discovered as a plagiarism.

This point is seemingly completely lost on most in here.

Ask yourself one simple question. If Toga had not been discovered at all as being Fruit, do you think you would be any the wiser now?

Do you think he would have told anyone?

Toga is a clone.

Full stop.

Christopher
At that time Toga was not public. Who would want to test an engine if the author told them that it was a clone. Also, it wasnt like he tried to hide it is Fruit by adding any masking techniques.

Christopher Conkie
Posts: 6068
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:34 pm
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Re: Go Quickly and Quietly.....Shut the door after you......

Post by Christopher Conkie » Thu May 31, 2007 4:14 pm

Tony Thomas wrote:
Christopher Conkie wrote:
K I Hyams wrote: I assume that you would have no objection to 2 programmers working on an engine jointly if they state in the notes that this is what they have done. If this is the case, why would you object to one programmer working on an engine after another programmer has left it, if he states clearly that this is what he has done?
That is not true.

Thomas did not tell anyone that Toga was Fruit until after it had been independently discovered as a plagiarism.

This point is seemingly completely lost on most in here.

Ask yourself one simple question. If Toga had not been discovered at all as being Fruit, do you think you would be any the wiser now?

Do you think he would have told anyone?

Toga is a clone.

Full stop.

Christopher
At that time Toga was not public. Who would want to test an engine if the author told them that it was a clone. Also, it wasnt like he tried to hide it is Fruit by adding any masking techniques.
You talk some amount of crap.

The fact that he replaced Fabian's name with his own is quite enough to show intent.

Now go away.

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