Rybka v Ehlvest rematch

[Graham Banks]

Wouldn't you like the very best, if that were possible?

Terry

Of course. Who wouldn't?

Unfortunately, as has been mentioned by others, Vas hasn't yet got the pulling power of Chessbase.

And for those who think I always defend Chessbase, I think they're a bit of a joke these days. I like their GUI, but in my opinion, their marketing lacks morals when they falsely claim that their engines are the strongest.

Regards, Graham.

PS - am I safe to say that or should I reword it?

[Terry McCracken]

Wouldn't you like the very best, if that were possible?

Terry

Of course. Who wouldn't?

Unfortunately, as has been mentioned by others, Vas hasn't yet got the pulling power of Chessbase.

And for those who think I always defend Chessbase, I think they're a bit of a joke these days. I like their GUI, but in my opinion, their marketing lacks morals when they falsely claim that their engines are the strongest.

Regards, Graham.

PS - am I safe to say that or should I reword it?

I think you're pretty safe....

OTOH, I still get moderated when I least expect it

Terry

[Christopher Conkie]

PS - am I safe to say that or should I reword it?

Sounded fine to me.....

You have to remember they are trying to sell you something. They are not interested in you unless you've got cash or can promote them.

Look at this example of complete nonsense.....

http://www.chessscotland.com/csinfo/gpintro.htm

Look at the prizes.

1st prize btw is ChessBase 8 starter edition (not 9 yes that's right 8).

Funny. To win "the prize" you would need to speed £900 in travel alone to gain the points (and win points of courser) required. Problem is the dimwits at ChessScotland believe that bunch of jokers. Talk about free marketing. I bet any other commercial venture could offer better prizes.

Anyway......

It would be different if Vas had two strong engines.

Then he could do the same as them marketing wise.

I think most people know that the Ultimate showdown gets the big thumbs down.

Regards

Christopher

[Steve B]

It's really simple actually. Rybka marketing = not much. it's popularity among top guns is still .... shy. Nothing to do about it. Deep Fritz\Junior would get that much for half the price. If only chessbase wanted to do. But they are not in a situation where they need to get more publicity.

Kinda reminds me the Linux thread below regards,

yes i guess Marketing it is
but to be honest i am not so sure this is an effective Marketing Technique

playing the same GM (Almost guaranteed to lose) and under less then normal match terms

in this match we have Ehlvest getting white in all of the games and Rybka being forced to leave book after move 3
in the first match we are removing Rybka's pawns one by one as we dance across the board

even if Rybka wins these types of odd (some would say goofy) matches it does not automatically translate into respect by the chess public as a whole that it is a superior engine under normal match conditions

i wonder if Kaufman is not a loose cannon here dreaming up bizarre conditions and then getting private backing for the matches?


i have to believe Rajlich would much prefer to hear that Rybka is going up against GM XXX under normal conditions for a purse of $XXX
and let me opine here that there are plenty of GMs who will play for 11 grand

Fern set up a two game match about a year and a half ago between Rybka and GM Molosvitch in Chile which Rybka won 1.5-.5
that match received television and radio attention in Chile and elsewhere

now how much attention would it have received if the match for example were between the GM and Rybka but Rybka had to move the pieces as if they were checkers and the GM could move as normal??( a very possible future idea by Kaufman)

something about all of this has me thinking that when Rajlich hears about Kaufmans latest privately funded challenge for Rybka his eyes roll up in his head..he sighs deeply and then tries to put a smiling face to it all

Ehlvest Has Left The Building Regards
Steve

[Steve B]

hi Graham

so they are wheeling out Elhvest yet again?

reminds me of Alekhine dusting off Bogoljubov whenever he needed money to defend his Title

or Fischer coming out of self imposed exile and
choosing Spassky again as his opponent in 1992

Telling It LIke It Is Regards
Steve

Hi Steve,

I look forward to any match that pits a GM against a top engine, regardless of who is involved.

Regards, Graham.

Actually Graham..
there is a funny inconsistency here on the part of the Rybka Marketing Engine

in one Challenge they are trying to get into the Fide event arguing that the best chess engine is not even allowed to compete

in the other challenge they have picked the same usual suspects(GM Ehlvest) to play Rybka against thereby bypassing or even ignoring the half-dozen or so GM's that replied to the challenge
(Kaufman himself admits that about 6 GM's responded to the challenge)
so they seem to be guilty of the same thing they have shown the corrupt Fide to be guilty of

the only difference as i see it is that Fide refuses to even acknowledge the challenge by Rybka ...while Kaufman at least admits that other GM's were interested to play

the results are the same though

when its your money at stake...you damn well play whomever you choose to play



Some what Amused Regards
Steve

[Nid Hogge]

but to be honest i am not so sure this is an effective Marketing Technique

playing the same GM (Almost guaranteed to lose) and under less then normal match terms

Yes, I completely agree..

In the time being Vasik will do more or less everything to promote his program. Even if this means playing the same guy 9000 times. Commercial Chess Engines know that "Man Vs. Machine" is the "cherry" of computer chess. Not only it boosts their ego and repertoire, It also has a marvelous efect on sales. Hell nothing like those "The program who made the top ten GM's resign in 6 moves while playing simultanely with only 2 minutes on clock" type of slogans. Not to mention the nifty compliments after the match from the GM about it's superb playing style.. And then you can print them over the packaging for the next 10 years.

And besides.. That's not real chess. pawn odd's or whatever it is(the name really suits it like no other, isn't it?) .. It belongs to the numerous other Chess variants such as Bughouse and all that. Plain and simple. Presumably the AI would win either way.
For me it takes all the air out of this match .. Not that there's many left out anyway due to the other issues.

Sorry for obvious spelling mistakes,

[Steve B]

but to be honest i am not so sure this is an effective Marketing Technique

playing the same GM (Almost guaranteed to lose) and under less then normal match terms

Yes, I completely agree..

In the time being Vasik will do more or less everything to promote his program. Even if this means playing the same guy 9000 times. Commercial Chess Engines know that "Man Vs. Machine" is the "cherry" of computer chess. Not only it boosts their ego and repertoire, It also has a marvelous efect on sales. Hell nothing like those "The program who made the top ten GM's resign in 6 moves while playing simultanely with only 2 minutes on clock" type of slogans. Not to mention the nifty compliments after the match from the GM about it's superb playing style.. And then you can print them over the packaging for the next 10 years.

And besides.. That's not real chess. pawn odd's or whatever it is(the name really suits it like no other, isn't it?) .. It belongs to the numerous other Chess variants such as Bughouse and all that. Plain simple. Presumably the AI would win either way.
For me it takes all the air out of this game anyway .. Not that there's many left due to the other issues.

Sorry for obvious spelling mistakes,

yes for me too
no real interest in these bizarre match conditions and against the same ol opponent

your spelling looks perfect to me!
Steve

[Nid Hogge]

yes for me too
no real interest in these bizarre match conditions and against the same ol opponent

your spelling looks perfect to me!
Steve

That's just because you arrived perfectly on time to see {part} of them edited away .

Thank's god this forum software doesn't turn you in like some other forum's do .. Then you would see zillion of these shameful "Edited!" lines..

Perfect Timing,

[Jim Walker]

You guys are really funny. What did I do, insult the local boys club of Rybka haters? If any post was uncalled for it was Steves. If he knew anything about the attempt to get top ranked GMs to play he wouldn't have made his snide comments. I simply pointed out that if he could get one of the top players better than the one Larry accepted then the should do it and not just put down someone who actually went out and set up the match.
Steve. As for the internet, I believe I'm using it now so your remark is simply stupid. The requirement to play at Larrys place keeps the game honest and above reproach.
I will repeat again... The match was open to ALL GMs above a certain rating so nobody above that rating was excluded. So your comments about not getting a higher player are again lacking in foresight or understanding of the offer. You simply use this forum as an outlet to vent your anger at the Rybka program for no reason. I've always considered you as a friend but when you are wrong you are wrong. Maybe you could add a few thousand dollars to tempt a higher rated player. Maybe you could tell Larry what he did wrong that made most GMs turn down the opportunity to win $11K. Maybe you could just once make a positive suggestion instead of pointing out negatives that really do not exist. Maybe you are just not interested in saying anything positive about the Rybka team. I don't know what your motivation is but it's misplaced in my opinion and that's what I'm trying to point out.
Jim

[Steve B]

actually i did make a positive counter suggestion

play on the Internet against a different GM thereby eliminating the need for living expenses

also i made no mention of a higher rated player..only a different player
there were six who responded

here in Kaufmans own words:


Six grandmasters accepted the challenge. In order of rating, they were Hikaru Nakamura, Jaan Ehlvest, Joel Benjamin, Emanuel Berg, Arthur Kogan, and Sergei Kudrin. Because of the large rating gap between the first two and the last four, I felt that I must choose one of the top two, with practical considerations playing a role in the final choice.

large rating gap?
i dont think so
here is the June 2007 rating lists culled from the USCF site:
http://beta.uschess.org/frontend/sectio ... %20Overall

the difference between Elhvests rating and Benjamin is a whopping 27 Elo
in addition Benjamin has extensive experience with Chess Engines being an advisor to the Deep Blue Team




others here seem to at least partially agree with my opinion on this so i guess they are all Anti-Rybka as well..hmm?
in fact there are even some posts on the Rybka site questioning the choice of Ehlvest


in your first post you said i did not understand so i should not speak up
you were wrong
now you are calling my posts Stupid when it turns out you have not read through my posts clearly and it appears you do not understand

at this point i will simply say i resent your comments and i will not respond to them in the future

Steve