I took part in a spectacular game in the first round of the 6th Freestyle final. I wonder if there is any engine that can find white's move 24, and if so, in how long time.
This is the criticical position:
[D] r1b1r1k1/1p1nnpp1/pq1Bp2p/8/4N3/6Q1/2PRB1PP/5R1K w - - 0 24
White can probably achieve some edge with 24.Be5, and I cannot rule out that it is also pretty good. However, 24.Bc7 is *completely* winning.
Mission Control unfortunately resigned already after playing 26...Kg8 (his Rybka 2.1d3 on monster hardware apparently gave -3 at this point, which it must have arrived at while I was about to play 27.Nxe8 -- otherwise Rybka would have played 26...Qxd6, I believe).
If the position before 24.Bc7 is too difficult, the positions before 25.Rxf7 and 30.Qxf5 can also be used as test positions.
Below is PGN of game with some short annotation of the critical lines after 24.Bc7.
[Event "Gaby_Aßmann's Manuelle Paarungen"]
[Site "playchess.com #101513"]
[Date "2007.06.22"]
[Round "1.1"]
[White "Flyingfatman"]
[Black "Mission control"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B97"]
[WhiteElo "2682"]
[BlackElo "2468"]
[PlyCount "77"]
[EventDate "2007.06.22"]
[EventType "match (rapid)"]
1. e4 {11} c5 {0} 2. Nf3 {4} d6 {0} 3. d4 {2} cxd4 {0} 4. Nxd4 {1} Nf6 {0} 5.
Nc3 {2} a6 {0} 6. Bg5 {11} e6 {0} 7. f4 {15} Qb6 {0} 8. Qd2 {37} Qxb2 {0} 9.
Rb1 {11} Qa3 {0} 10. e5 {42} dxe5 {0} 11. fxe5 {12} Nfd7 {0} 12. Ne4 {24} Qxa2
{0} 13. Rd1 {19} h6 {0} 14. Bh4 {22} Qd5 {0} 15. Qe3 {13} Qxe5 {0} 16. Be2 {13}
Bc5 {0} 17. Bg3 {41} Bxd4 {0} 18. Rxd4 {13} Qa5+ {0} 19. Rd2 {11} O-O {0} 20.
Bd6 {9} Nc6 {0} 21. O-O {16} Re8 {120} 22. Qg3 {50} Qb6+ {112} 23. Kh1 {18} Ne7
{123} 24. Bc7 $3 {178} Qc6 {139} 25. Rxf7 $1 {17} Kxf7 {151} 26. Nd6+ {9} Kg8 {
Mission control,Rybka 2.1d3 mp resigns (Lag: Av=0.16s, max=0.5s) 656} (26...
Kf8 27. Nxe8 Nf5 (27... g6 28. Bd3) (27... g5 28. Bh5) 28. Qg6 Ne5 29. Bxe5
Qxe8 30. Qh7) (26... Qxd6 27. Bh5+ Kg8 28. Bxd6 Nf5 29. Qe1 Nxd6 30. Rxd6 Rf8
31. Qxe6+ Kh8 32. Bf7 Nc5 33. Qe7 Be6 34. Rxe6 Nxe6 35. Qxe6) 27. Nxe8 Nf5 (
27... g5 28. Qa3) 28. Qg6 Qc3 29. Qxe6+ Kh8 30. Qxf5 $3 {The critical move in
the whole 24.Bc7 combination. White goes further down in material, but
establishes a crushing mating attack.} Qxd2 31. Qf7 Qc1+ 32. Bf1 Qa1 33. Bd6 $1
{with the tactical point of c2-c3 (allowing Bd3 after Qxc3), then Bf8, then
check with Qxf8, and then Bd3+ g6 Nf6+ and black must give the queen, for
example} a5 34. c3 Qxc3 35. Bf8 Nxf8 36. Qxf8+ Kh7 37. Bd3+ g6 38. Nf6+ Qxf6
39. Qxf6 1-0
Can your engine find this move from the 6th Freestyle final?
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
-
Chris Taylor
Re: Can your engine find this move from the 6th Freestyle fi
[quote="Alkelele"]I took part in a spectacular game in the first round of the 6th Freestyle final. I wonder if there is any engine that can find white's move 24, and if so, in how long time.
This is the criticical position:
[D] r1b1r1k1/1p1nnpp1/pq1Bp2p/8/4N3/6Q1/2PRB1PP/5R1K w - - 0 24
White can probably achieve some edge with 24.Be5, and I cannot rule out that it is also pretty good. However, 24.Bc7 is *completely* winning.
Mission Control unfortunately resigned already after playing 26...Kg8 (his Rybka 2.1d3 on monster hardware apparently gave -3 at this point, which it must have arrived at while I was about to play 27.Nxe8 -- otherwise Rybka would have played 26...Qxd6, I believe).
If the position before 24.Bc7 is too difficult, the positions before 25.Rxf7 and 30.Qxf5 can also be used as test positions.
Below is PGN of game with some short annotation of the critical lines after 24.Bc7.
[Event "Gaby_Aßmann's Manuelle Paarungen"]
[Site "playchess.com #101513"]
[Date "2007.06.22"]
[Round "1.1"]
[White "Flyingfatman"]
[Black "Mission control"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B97"]
[WhiteElo "2682"]
[BlackElo "2468"]
[PlyCount "77"]
[EventDate "2007.06.22"]
[EventType "match (rapid)"]
1. e4 {11} c5 {0} 2. Nf3 {4} d6 {0} 3. d4 {2} cxd4 {0} 4. Nxd4 {1} Nf6 {0} 5.
Nc3 {2} a6 {0} 6. Bg5 {11} e6 {0} 7. f4 {15} Qb6 {0} 8. Qd2 {37} Qxb2 {0} 9.
Rb1 {11} Qa3 {0} 10. e5 {42} dxe5 {0} 11. fxe5 {12} Nfd7 {0} 12. Ne4 {24} Qxa2
{0} 13. Rd1 {19} h6 {0} 14. Bh4 {22} Qd5 {0} 15. Qe3 {13} Qxe5 {0} 16. Be2 {13}
Bc5 {0} 17. Bg3 {41} Bxd4 {0} 18. Rxd4 {13} Qa5+ {0} 19. Rd2 {11} O-O {0} 20.
Bd6 {9} Nc6 {0} 21. O-O {16} Re8 {120} 22. Qg3 {50} Qb6+ {112} 23. Kh1 {18} Ne7
{123} 24. Bc7 $3 {178} Qc6 {139} 25. Rxf7 $1 {17} Kxf7 {151} 26. Nd6+ {9} Kg8 {
Mission control,Rybka 2.1d3 mp resigns (Lag: Av=0.16s, max=0.5s) 656} (26...
Kf8 27. Nxe8 Nf5 (27... g6 28. Bd3) (27... g5 28. Bh5) 28. Qg6 Ne5 29. Bxe5
Qxe8 30. Qh7) (26... Qxd6 27. Bh5+ Kg8 28. Bxd6 Nf5 29. Qe1 Nxd6 30. Rxd6 Rf8
31. Qxe6+ Kh8 32. Bf7 Nc5 33. Qe7 Be6 34. Rxe6 Nxe6 35. Qxe6) 27. Nxe8 Nf5 (
27... g5 28. Qa3) 28. Qg6 Qc3 29. Qxe6+ Kh8 30. Qxf5 $3 {The critical move in
the whole 24.Bc7 combination. White goes further down in material, but
establishes a crushing mating attack.} Qxd2 31. Qf7 Qc1+ 32. Bf1 Qa1 33. Bd6 $1
{with the tactical point of c2-c3 (allowing Bd3 after Qxc3), then Bf8, then
check with Qxf8, and then Bd3+ g6 Nf6+ and black must give the queen, for
example} a5 34. c3 Qxc3 35. Bf8 Nxf8 36. Qxf8+ Kh7 37. Bd3+ g6 38. Nf6+ Qxf6
39. Qxf6 1-0[/quote]
Flyingfatman - Mission control, Gaby_Aßmann's Manuelle Paarungen rapid 2007
r1b1r1k1/1p1nnpp1/pq1Bp2p/8/4N3/6Q1/2PRB1PP/5R1K w - - 0 1
Analysis by HIARCS 11.1 MP UCI: Dual 4600 64 bit OS 512Mb hash
24.Bc7 Qc6 25.Rxf7 Kxf7
= (-0.03) Depth: 14/37 00:00:48 30883kN
+- (1.64) Depth: 17/44 00:05:58 237mN
(Taylor, Notts 30.06.2007)
Hiarcs picks up the move on 48 seconds and stays with it
For six mins, nearly!
Edit: it is still with it at 11:09
Chris
This is the criticical position:
[D] r1b1r1k1/1p1nnpp1/pq1Bp2p/8/4N3/6Q1/2PRB1PP/5R1K w - - 0 24
White can probably achieve some edge with 24.Be5, and I cannot rule out that it is also pretty good. However, 24.Bc7 is *completely* winning.
Mission Control unfortunately resigned already after playing 26...Kg8 (his Rybka 2.1d3 on monster hardware apparently gave -3 at this point, which it must have arrived at while I was about to play 27.Nxe8 -- otherwise Rybka would have played 26...Qxd6, I believe).
If the position before 24.Bc7 is too difficult, the positions before 25.Rxf7 and 30.Qxf5 can also be used as test positions.
Below is PGN of game with some short annotation of the critical lines after 24.Bc7.
[Event "Gaby_Aßmann's Manuelle Paarungen"]
[Site "playchess.com #101513"]
[Date "2007.06.22"]
[Round "1.1"]
[White "Flyingfatman"]
[Black "Mission control"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B97"]
[WhiteElo "2682"]
[BlackElo "2468"]
[PlyCount "77"]
[EventDate "2007.06.22"]
[EventType "match (rapid)"]
1. e4 {11} c5 {0} 2. Nf3 {4} d6 {0} 3. d4 {2} cxd4 {0} 4. Nxd4 {1} Nf6 {0} 5.
Nc3 {2} a6 {0} 6. Bg5 {11} e6 {0} 7. f4 {15} Qb6 {0} 8. Qd2 {37} Qxb2 {0} 9.
Rb1 {11} Qa3 {0} 10. e5 {42} dxe5 {0} 11. fxe5 {12} Nfd7 {0} 12. Ne4 {24} Qxa2
{0} 13. Rd1 {19} h6 {0} 14. Bh4 {22} Qd5 {0} 15. Qe3 {13} Qxe5 {0} 16. Be2 {13}
Bc5 {0} 17. Bg3 {41} Bxd4 {0} 18. Rxd4 {13} Qa5+ {0} 19. Rd2 {11} O-O {0} 20.
Bd6 {9} Nc6 {0} 21. O-O {16} Re8 {120} 22. Qg3 {50} Qb6+ {112} 23. Kh1 {18} Ne7
{123} 24. Bc7 $3 {178} Qc6 {139} 25. Rxf7 $1 {17} Kxf7 {151} 26. Nd6+ {9} Kg8 {
Mission control,Rybka 2.1d3 mp resigns (Lag: Av=0.16s, max=0.5s) 656} (26...
Kf8 27. Nxe8 Nf5 (27... g6 28. Bd3) (27... g5 28. Bh5) 28. Qg6 Ne5 29. Bxe5
Qxe8 30. Qh7) (26... Qxd6 27. Bh5+ Kg8 28. Bxd6 Nf5 29. Qe1 Nxd6 30. Rxd6 Rf8
31. Qxe6+ Kh8 32. Bf7 Nc5 33. Qe7 Be6 34. Rxe6 Nxe6 35. Qxe6) 27. Nxe8 Nf5 (
27... g5 28. Qa3) 28. Qg6 Qc3 29. Qxe6+ Kh8 30. Qxf5 $3 {The critical move in
the whole 24.Bc7 combination. White goes further down in material, but
establishes a crushing mating attack.} Qxd2 31. Qf7 Qc1+ 32. Bf1 Qa1 33. Bd6 $1
{with the tactical point of c2-c3 (allowing Bd3 after Qxc3), then Bf8, then
check with Qxf8, and then Bd3+ g6 Nf6+ and black must give the queen, for
example} a5 34. c3 Qxc3 35. Bf8 Nxf8 36. Qxf8+ Kh7 37. Bd3+ g6 38. Nf6+ Qxf6
39. Qxf6 1-0[/quote]
Flyingfatman - Mission control, Gaby_Aßmann's Manuelle Paarungen rapid 2007
r1b1r1k1/1p1nnpp1/pq1Bp2p/8/4N3/6Q1/2PRB1PP/5R1K w - - 0 1
Analysis by HIARCS 11.1 MP UCI: Dual 4600 64 bit OS 512Mb hash
24.Bc7 Qc6 25.Rxf7 Kxf7
= (-0.03) Depth: 14/37 00:00:48 30883kN
+- (1.64) Depth: 17/44 00:05:58 237mN
(Taylor, Notts 30.06.2007)
Hiarcs picks up the move on 48 seconds and stays with it
For six mins, nearly!
Edit: it is still with it at 11:09
Chris
-
Alkelele
Re: Can your engine find this move from the 6th Freestyle fi
Cool! Can you give the PVs at the different depths and times? Just to see if Hiarcs has also already found the critical points of the line (30.Qxf5!).
I am not sure, but I suspect that Rybka would not "find" or choose 24.Bc7 within, say, 12 hours of analysis time (in single-pv mode). I also think many other engines would have big problems with this test.
I am not sure, but I suspect that Rybka would not "find" or choose 24.Bc7 within, say, 12 hours of analysis time (in single-pv mode). I also think many other engines would have big problems with this test.
-
Chris Taylor
Re: Can your engine find this move from the 6th Freestyle fi
[quote="Alkelele"]Cool! Can you give the PVs at the different depths and times? Just to see if Hiarcs has also already found the critical points of the line (30.Qxf5!).
I am not sure, but I suspect that Rybka would not "find" or choose 24.Bc7 within, say, 12 hours of analysis time (in single-pv mode). I also think many other engines would have big problems with this test.[/quote]
Hi
I am going to put ZapChess Zanzibar 64 bit on this. My next post will be that then! If I do get chance I will bang Rybka on as well.
Happy weekends regards..
Chris
I am not sure, but I suspect that Rybka would not "find" or choose 24.Bc7 within, say, 12 hours of analysis time (in single-pv mode). I also think many other engines would have big problems with this test.[/quote]
Hi
I am going to put ZapChess Zanzibar 64 bit on this. My next post will be that then! If I do get chance I will bang Rybka on as well.
Happy weekends regards..
Chris
-
Eelco de Groot
- Posts: 4565
- Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:40 am
- Full name:
Re: Can your engine find this move from the 6th Freestyle fi
Hello guys,Chris Taylor wrote:HiAlkelele wrote:Cool! Can you give the PVs at the different depths and times? Just to see if Hiarcs has also already found the critical points of the line (30.Qxf5!).
I am not sure, but I suspect that Rybka would not "find" or choose 24.Bc7 within, say, 12 hours of analysis time (in single-pv mode). I also think many other engines would have big problems with this test.
I am going to put ZapChess Zanzibar 64 bit on this. My next post will be that then! If I do get chance I will bang Rybka on as well.
Happy weekends regards..
Chris
I can't reproduce Hiarcs 11.1 staying with the move here, but that does not say much because, for some reason, Hiarcs analysis is not always reproducible on other machines.
Hiarcs 11.1 does get a long way though in the variation that Dagh played, but it just can't find 30.Qxf5 so the eval does not get above zero. Pro Deo Test16 could not find the move 24.Bc7 in four hours of analysis, Glaurung 2-ε/5 comes close in the first plies but also does not hold the move.
Pro Deo 1.5 Test16
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bg5 e6 7.f4 Qb6 8.Qd2
Qxb2 9.Rb1 Qa3 10.e5 dxe5 11.fxe5 Nfd7 12.Ne4 Qxa2 13.Rd1 h614.Bh4
Qd5 15.Qe3 Qxe5 16.Be2 Bc5 17.Bg3 Bxd4 18.Rxd4 Qa5 19.Rd2 O-O 20.Bd6 Nc6 21.O-O Re8 22.Qg3 Qb6 23.Kh1 Ne7
r1b1r1k1/1p1nnpp1/pq1Bp2p/8/4N3/6Q1/2PRB1PP/5R1K w - -
00:00:00 1.00 -0.72 24.Bxe7 Rxe7
00:00:00 1.08 -0.61 24.Rf6
00:00:00 1.10 -0.25 24.Bc4
00:00:00 1.27 -0.02 24.Rdd1
00:00:00 2.00 -0.83 24.Rdd1 Nf5
00:00:00 2.31 -0.45 24.Bxe7 Rxe7 25.Rdd1
00:00:00 3.00 -0.74 24.Bxe7 Rxe7 25.Rdd1 e5
00:00:00 3.02 -0.74 24.Be5
00:00:00 3.02 0.37 24.Be5 Ng6 25.Nd6 Ngxe5 26.Nxe8
00:00:00 4.00 -0.09 24.Be5 Ng6 25.Bd4 Qb4
00:00:00 4.05 -0.01 24.Bc5 Nxc5 25.Nf6 Kf8 26.Nh7 Kg8 27.Nf6 Kf8 28.Nh7 Kg8
00:00:00 5.00 -0.01 24.Bc5 Nxc5 25.Nf6 Kf8 26.Nh7 Kg8 27.Nf6 Kf8 28.Nh7 Kg8
00:00:00 5.01 0.11 24.Be5 Ng6 25.Bd4 Qc6 26.Nd6
00:00:00 6.00 -0.07 24.Be5 Ng6 25.Rd6 Qa5 26.Bb2
00:00:00 7.00 -0.10 24.Be5 Ng6 25.Nd6 Re7 26.Nc4 Qc6
00:00:00 7.01 -0.01 24.Bc5 Qc6 25.Rxd7 Bxd7 26.Nf6 Kf8 27.Nh7 Kg8 28.Nf6 Kf8 29.Nh7 Kg8
00:00:00 8.00 -0.10 24.Bc5 Qa5 25.Rxd7 Bxd7 26.Nf6 Kh8 27.Nxd7
00:00:01 9.00 -0.01 24.Bc5 Qc6 25.Rxd7 Bxd7 26.Nf6 Kf8 27.Nh7 Kg8 28.Nf6 Kf8 29.Nh7 Kg8
00:00:03 10.00 -0.07 24.Bc5 Qc6 25.Nd6 Rf8 26.Bd4 Ng6 27.Kg1
00:00:03 10.01 0.03 24.Be5 Ng6 25.Nd6 Re7 26.Bd4 Qa5 27.Rdd1 e5 28.Be3
00:00:08 11.00 -0.07 24.Be5 Ng6 25.Bd4 Qb4 26.c3 Qe7 27.Nd6 Rf8 28.Nxf7 e5 29.Nxh6 Kh7
00:00:10 11.01 0.05 24.Bc5 Qa5 25.Bd4 e5 26.Bc3 Qa2 27.Bxe5 f6 28.Nxf6 Nxf6 29.Bxf6
00:00:22 12.00 0.42 24.Bc5 Nxc5 25.Nf6 Kf8 26.Nxe8 Nf5 27.Rxf5 exf5 28.Qxg7 Kxe8 29.Qg8 Ke7 30.Bh5 Nd7 31.Qh8
00:00:43 13.00 0.25 24.Bc5 Qc6 25.Bh5 Qxe4 26.Bxf7 Kh8 27.Bxe8 Nxc5 28.Rf8 Kh7 29.Rd8
00:02:28 14.00 -0.01 24.Bc5 Nxc5 25.Nf6 Kf8 26.Nxe8 Nf5
00:03:06 14.01 0.14 24.Be5 Ng6 25.Nd6 Ndxe5 26.Nxe8 Bd7 27.Nd6 Be8
00:06:59 15.00 0.14 24.Be5 Ng6 25.Bc3 Re7 26.h4 Qc6 27.Bd3 e5 28.h5 Ngf8 29.Nd6 Nc5 30.Bxe5 f6
00:17:04 16.00 0.28 24.Be5 Ng6 25.Bc3 Ndf8 26.h4 h5 27.Qf3 Qc7 28.Nd6 Re7 29.Bxg7 Rd7
01:00:01 17.00 0.30 24.Be5 Ng6 25.Bc3 Rf8 26.Rdd1
04:01:28 18.00 0.58 24.Be5 Ng6 25.Bd4 Qd8 26.Bxg7
r1b1r1k1/1p1nnpp1/pq1Bp2p/8/4N3/6Q1/2PRB1PP/5R1K w - -
Engine: Glaurung 2-epsilon/5 (256 MB)
gemaakt door Tord Romstad
2.00 0:00 -1.54 24.Lh5 g6 (444) 0
2.00 0:00 -1.41 24.c4 f6 (554) 0
2.00 0:00 -1.31 24.Lc4 g6 (668) 0
3.00 0:00 -1.19 24.Lc4 Pf5 25.Dg4 (1.629) 1
3.00 0:00 -0.05 24.Lc7 Db4 25.Lh5 (2.219) 2
4.00 0:00 -1.09 24.Lc7 Db4 25.Pd6 Pf5 (3.266) 3
5.00 0:00 +0.05 24.Lc7 Dc6 25.Pd6 Dxc7 26.Dxg7+ Kxg7
27.Pxe8+ Kf8 28.Pxc7 (11.302) 13
6.00 0:00 +0.05 24.Lc7 Dc6 25.Pd6 Dxc7 26.Dxg7+ Kxg7
27.Pxe8+ Kf8 28.Pxc7 (16.960) 19
7.00 0:00 -0.49 24.Lc7 Dc6 25.Pd6 Tf8 26.La5 Pg6
27.Lc3 (42.311) 46
8.01 0:01 -1.01 24.Lc7 Dc6 25.Pd6 Tf8 26.La5 Pg6
27.Lc3 e5 (122.450) 117
8.02 0:01 0.00 24.Lc5 Dc6 25.Txd7 Lxd7 26.Pf6+ Kf8
27.Ph7+ Kg8 28.Pf6+ (177.094) 155
9.01 0:01 0.00 24.Lc5 Dc6 25.Txd7 Lxd7 26.Pf6+ Kf8
27.Ph7+ Kg8 28.Pf6+ (301.993) 222
10.01 0:02 0.00 24.Lc5 Pxc5 25.Pf6+ Kf8 26.Ph7+ Kg8
27.Pf6+ (703.841) 346
11.01 0:03 0.00 24.Lc5 Pxc5 25.Pf6+ Kf8 26.Ph7+ Kg8
27.Pf6+ (1.646.450) 468
12.01 0:05 0.00 24.Lc5 Pxc5 25.Pf6+ Kf8 26.Ph7+ Kg8
27.Pf6+ (3.075.767) 534
13.01 0:10 0.00 24.Lc5 Pxc5 25.Pf6+ Kf8 26.Ph7+ Kg8
27.Pf6+ (6.489.841) 590
14.01 0:23 0.00 24.Lc5 Pxc5 25.Pf6+ Kf8 26.Ph7+ Kg8
27.Pf6+ (14.697.857) 628
15.01 0:49 0.00 24.Lc5 Pxc5 25.Pf6+ Kf8 26.Ph7+ Kg8
27.Pf6+ (32.175.038) 644
16.01 1:37 0.00 24.Lc5 Pxc5 25.Pf6+ Kf8 26.Ph7+ Kg8
27.Pf6+ (64.471.361) 662
17.01 3:40 0.00 24.Lc5 Pxc5 25.Pf6+ Kf8 26.Ph7+ Kg8
27.Pf6+ (148.762.772) 675
18.01 7:29 0.00 24.Lc5 Pxc5 25.Pf6+ Kf8 26.Ph7+ Kg8
27.Pf6+ (308.303.654) 685
19.01 20:10 0.00 24.Lc5 Pxc5 25.Pf6+ Kf8 26.Ph7+ Kg8
27.Pf6+ (830.234.423) 685
20.01 54:48 0.00 24.Lc5 Pxc5 25.Pf6+ Kf8 26.Ph7+ Kg8
27.Pf6+ (2.268.910.254) 689
21.01 102:52 0.00 24.Lc5 Pxc5 25.Pf6+ Kf8 26.Ph7+ Kg8
27.Pf6+ (4.280.317.668) 693
21.03 163:30 +0.33 24.Le5 Pg6 25.Lc3 Tf8 26.Pd6 Dd8
27.Pxf7 Txf7 28.Dxg6 De7 29.Tdd1 Pf6
30.Le5 b5 31.Lf3 Ta7 32.Ld6 De8
33.Lc5 Lb7 34.Le2 (6.800.051.257) 693
r1b1r1k1/1p1nnpp1/pq1Bp2p/8/4N3/6Q1/2PRB1PP/5R1K w - -
Engine: HIARCS 11.1 Default (256 MB)
gemaakt door Mark John Uniacke
8/22 0:00 -0.07 24.Lc5 (125.297) 242
8/22 0:00 -0.07 24.Lc5 Dc6 25.Pd6 Dxc5 26.Pxe8 Pf5
27.Txf5 g5 28.Txc5 Pxc5 (150.686) 246
8/22 0:00 -0.06 24.Df3 (161.563) 240
8/22 0:00 +0.22 24.Df3 f5 25.Lc4 Tf8 26.Lxe6+ Kh8
27.Pg3 (180.978) 240
9/23 0:01 -0.02-- 24.Df3 (270.040) 246
9/23 0:01 -0.24 24.Df3 f5 25.Lc4 Dc6 26.Lxe6+ Kh8
27.Dh5 Pf6 28.Pxf6 Lxe6 29.Pxe8 Dxe8
30.Dxe8+ (288.344) 249
9/23 0:01 -0.23 24.Le5 (337.898) 251
9/23 0:01 -0.05 24.Le5 Pg6 25.Ld4 Dc6 26.Pd6 e5
27.Pxe8 exd4 28.Pc7 Tb8 29.Txd4 (373.257) 248
10/25 0:02 -0.05 24.Le5 Pg6 25.Ld4 Dc6 26.Pd6 e5
27.Pxe8 exd4 28.Pc7 Tb8 29.Txd4 Dxc2 (667.216) 254
11/27 0:05 -0.30-- 24.Le5 (1.506.641) 258
11/27 0:06 -0.56 24.Le5 Pg6 25.Lc3 Tf8 26.Td6 Dc7
27.Lh5 Dc4 (1.756.849) 256
11/27 0:07 -0.55 24.Df3 (1.827.278) 254
11/27 0:08 -0.35 24.Df3 f5 25.Lc4 Pf8 26.Lxe7 Txe7
27.Dxf5 Ld7 28.Pd6 Db4 29.Df2 b5 (2.037.958) 252
11/32 0:12 -0.35 24.Df4 (3.203.916) 256
11/32 0:12 +0.19++ 24.Df4 (3.266.058) 256
11/32 0:13 +0.19 24.Df4 f5 (3.432.366) 256
12/32 0:15 -0.05-- 24.Df4 (3.934.459) 256
12/32 0:20 -1.04 24.Df4 f5 25.Lc4 Kh8 26.Lxe6 Pf8
27.Lf7 Peg6 28.Df2 Dxf2 29.Pxf2 Te3
30.Lc5 Tc3 (5.106.010) 246
12/32 0:21 -1.03 24.Df3 (5.191.431) 246
12/32 0:22 -0.28 24.Df3 f5 25.Lc4 Pf8 26.Lxe7 Txe7
27.Dxf5 Ld7 28.Df4 Pg6 29.Df5 Ph4
30.Df4 (5.568.429) 246
13/34 0:39 -0.33 24.Df3 f5 25.Lc4 Pf8 26.Lxe7 Txe7
27.Dxf5 Ld7 28.Df4 Lb5 29.Lxb5 Pg6 (9.822.443) 250
13/34 0:43 -0.32 24.Le5 (10.830.078) 247
13/34 0:49 -0.04 24.Le5 Pg6 25.Lc3 Tf8 26.Tdd1 e5
27.Lc4 Ph8 28.Pd6 (12.132.357) 247
14/36 1:31 -0.29-- 24.Le5 (22.953.214) 250
14/36 1:33 -0.29 24.Le5 Pg6 25.Lc3 Te7 26.Pd6 Dc6
27.Txf7 Txf7 28.Dxg6 Te7 29.Pe4 (23.358.968) 249
14/36 1:55 -0.28 24.Lc5 (28.313.017) 245
14/37 2:14 -0.14 24.Lc5 Dc6 25.Pd6 Dxc5 26.Pxe8 Dg5
27.Dxg5 hxg5 28.Pd6 Pe5 29.Tb1 b5
30.c4 Pxc4 31.Pxc4 bxc4 32.Lxc4 Pc6
33.Tbd1 (33.192.914) 247
14/37 2:30 -0.13 24.Lc7 (36.841.962) 245
14/37 2:36 -0.13 24.Lc7 Dc6 25.Txf7 Kxf7 (38.640.666) 246
15/39 3:51 -0.38-- 24.Lc7 (57.158.977) 246
15/39 3:57 -0.38 24.Lc7 Dc6 25.Txf7 Kxf7 26.Pd6+ Kg8
27.Pxe8 Pf5 28.Dg6 Dc3 29.Dxe6+ Kh8
30.Td1 (58.498.875) 245
15/39 4:02 -0.37 24.Lc5 (59.357.186) 245
15/41 4:59 -0.17 24.Lc5 Dc6 25.Txd7 Lxd7 (73.984.935) 246
16/43 10:21 0.00 24.Lc5 Pxc5 25.Pf6+ Kf8 26.Ph7+ Kg8
27.Pf6+ (149.154.874) 240
17/43 17:45 0.00 24.Lc5 Pxc5 25.Pf6+ Kf8 26.Ph7+ Kg8
27.Pf6+ (251.585.555) 236
Eelco
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Tony Thomas
Re: Can your engine find this move from the 6th Freestyle fi
Queen 3.09 doesnt find Bc7.
Code: Select all
1] -161 d6e7
[2] -161 d6e7 e8e7
[3] -109 d6e7 e8e7 e4d6
[4] -143 d6e7 e8e7 e4d6 d7f6
[5] -260 d6e7 e8e7 e4d6 b6b2 d6c8
[6] -280 d6e7 e8e7 e4d6 b6a5 d6c8 a8c8
[6] -270 c2c4 e7f5 g3f4 b6c6 d2d1 h6h5
[6] -236 d6c7 b6c6 g3f4 f7f5 e4d6 e6e5
[7] -243 d6c7 b6c6 d2d7 c8d7 e4f6 g8h8 f6e8 a8e8
[7] -108 d6e5 e7g6 e4d6 e8e7 e5g7 g8g7 g3c3 e6e5
[8] -127 d6e5 e7g6 e4d6 d7e5 d6e8 c8d7 e8d6 b6a5
[9] -84 d6e5 e7g6 e4d6 d7e5 d6e8 c8d7 e8d6 f7f6 e2f3
[10] -120 d6e5 e7g6 e4d6 d7e5 d6e8 c8d7 e8d6 f7f6 f1d1 d7c6
[11] -105 d6e5 e7g6 e4d6 e8e7 g3c3 d7e5 d6c8 b6c7 c8e7 c7e7 c3d4 f7f6
[12] -144 d6e5 e7g6 e4d6 e8e7 g3c3 b6c5 e5g7 c5c3 g7c3
[13] -108 d6e5 e7g6 e4d6 e8e7 g3c3 b6c5 e5g7 c5c3 g7c3 f7f5 c3b4 e7g7 e2h5 -
bedouin
Re: Can your engine find this move from the 6th Freestyle fi
How you ask if user with 32-bit single processor can see move that 64 threads saw? I don't get logic. In next 20 years maybe a normal home user will have such a machine.
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Eelco de Groot
- Posts: 4565
- Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:40 am
- Full name:
Re: Can your engine find this move from the 6th Freestyle fi
The move 24.Bc7 is not completely impossible to find. I don't think Dagh was using a 64 CPU machine and he found it, without even using Rybka!bedouin wrote:How you ask if user with 32-bit single processor can see move that 64 threads saw? I don't get logic. In next 20 years maybe a normal home user will have such a machine.
I am curious if Chris can post some analysis from his Hiarcs, I think Chris is running 64 bit Windows so maybe Hiarcs although not using bitboards to my knowledge, can go a bit deeper on his machine or he can use larger hashtables.
The move 30. Qxf5 can be found
[D]r1b1N2k/1pBn2p1/p3Q2p/5n2/8/2q5/2PRB1PP/7K w - -
Engine: HIARCS 11.1 Combinations Id (512 MB)
gemaakt door Mark John Uniacke
9/25 0:00 -0.15 30.Td1 Pf6 31.Db3 Dxb3 32.cxb3 Le6
33.Pxf6 gxf6 34.Ld8 Kg8 35.Td3 Lxb3
36.Lxf6 Tc8 (133.747) 258
10/25 0:01 -0.01 30.Td1 Pd4 31.De7 Pxe2 32.Dxe2 a5
33.De7 a4 34.Ld6 Kh7 35.De4+ (400.700) 256
11/27 0:02 -0.01 30.Td1 Pd4 31.De7 (759.680) 259
12/33 0:13 -0.08 30.Td1 Pd4 31.De7 Pxe2 32.Ld6 b6
33.Dxe2 Lb7 34.De7 Lxg2+ 35.Kxg2 Dxc2+
36.Kh3 Df5+ 37.Kg2 Dg6+ 38.Lg3 Txe8
39.Dxd7 (3.552.626) 256
13/33 0:26 +0.15 30.Td1 Pd4 31.De7 Pxe2 32.Dxe2 Pf8
33.De7 Pg6 34.Df7 Kh7 35.La5 (6.742.366) 256
14/37 1:18 -0.09-- 30.Td1 (21.132.012) 267
14/38 1:58 -0.39 30.Td1 Pc5 31.De5 Dxe5 32.Lxe5 Le6
33.Pc7 Tc8 34.Pxe6 Pxe6 35.Ld3 Pfd4
36.Le4 Pc6 37.Lc3 Tf8 38.Kg1 Pc5
39.Lxc6 bxc6 (31.062.614) 263
14/38 2:12 -0.38 30.Lf4 (34.372.441) 259
14/38 2:16 -0.38 30.Lf4 Pc5 31.De5 Dxe5 (35.726.077) 260
15/41 3:08 -0.42 30.Lf4 Pc5 31.De5 Dxe5 32.Lxe5 Le6
33.Pc7 Tc8 34.Pxe6 Pxe6 35.Lg4 Tc5
36.Lb2 b5 37.Te2 Ped4 38.Te8+ Kh7
39.c3 Pb3 40.Ld1 Pd2 (49.512.258) 261
15/41 3:13 -0.41 30.Td1 (50.509.352) 261
15/41 3:16 -0.41 30.Td1 Pc5 31.De5 Dxe5 (51.474.745) 261
15/41 3:46 -0.40 30.Dd5 (58.962.157) 259
15/41 4:20 -0.38 30.Dd5 De3 31.Dxf5 Dxd2 32.Df7 Dc1+
33.Lf1 Da1 (67.620.387) 259
15/41 4:40 -0.37 30.Dxf5 (72.980.907) 260
15/41 4:43 -0.13++ 30.Dxf5 (73.999.570) 260
15/41 4:50 +0.03 30.Dxf5 Dxd2 31.Df7 De1+ 32.Lf1 Da1
33.Ld8 b5 34.c3 Dxc3 35.Lf6 Dxf6
36.Pxf6 Pxf6 37.Df8+ Pg8 38.Ld3 Lb7
39.Df7 Tc8 40.Kg1 Tc1+ 41.Kf2 (75.892.605) 261
16/41 5:03 0.00 30.Dxf5 Dxd2 31.Df7 De1+ 32.Lf1 Da1
33.Ld8 b5 34.c3 Dxc3 35.Lf6 Dxf6
36.Pxf6 Pxf6 37.Df8+ Pg8 38.Df7 Pf6 (79.652.559) 262
17/45 6:36 +0.25++ 30.Dxf5 (105.910.797) 267
17/45 9:18 +3.51 30.Dxf5 Dxd2 31.Df7 De1+ 32.Lf1 Da1
33.Ld6 h5 34.h4 b5 35.c3 Dxc3
36.Dxh5+ Kg8 37.Dd5+ Kh8 38.Dxa8 a5
39.Pc7 Pb6 40.Pxb5 De1 41.Df3 Dxh4+ (152.502.020) 272
but going back now Hiarcs does not immediately remember this, because I'm not using position learning in this setting, and it still prunes 24.Bc7 based on earlier analysis, it just skips the move. But, going one ply deeper again, after 24.Bc7, Hiarcs Combinations 1d can see another way to move forward, that it could not see one half-move earlier, so maybe it is something like a nullmove or other pruning problem. Finally at 17 plies Hiarcs can see the whole combination, but I'm not sure what part of this it remembers from going forward in the analysis, it does not remember the +3.51 score it seems and if it still had 30.Qxf5 in memory why did it not play it earlier in lines with 26... Kg8? At 18 plies deep Hiarcs Combinations goes back to 26... Qxd6 with Black but White still with a good advantage.
[D]r1b1r1k1/1pBnnpp1/pq2p2p/8/4N3/6Q1/2PRB1PP/5R1K b - -
Engine: HIARCS 11.1 Combinations Id (512 MB)
gemaakt door Mark John Uniacke
9/24 0:00 +1.07 24...Dc6 25.Pd6 Tf8 (191.792) 314
9/24 0:00 +0.82-- 24...Dc6 (251.153) 302
9/24 0:01 +0.80 24...Dc6 25.Pd6 Tf8 26.Ld8 Pg6 (326.468) 302
10/26 0:02 +1.04 24...Dc6 25.Pd6 Tf8 26.La5 Pd5 27.c4 Dc5
28.Pf5 (665.395) 280
11/31 0:05 +0.79-- 24...Dc6 (1.349.685) 265
11/31 0:07 +0.78 24...Dc6 25.Le5 Pg6 26.Lc3 Dxe4 (1.881.686) 264
12/33 0:08 +0.53-- 24...Dc6 (2.200.134) 256
12/33 0:12 +0.10 24...Dc6 25.Txf7 Kxf7 26.Pd6+ Kg8
27.Pxe8 Pf5 28.Dg6 (3.264.562) 256
13/38 0:22 +0.10 24...Dc6 25.Txf7 Kxf7 26.Pd6+ Kg8
27.Pxe8 (5.938.839) 259
14/38 0:31 -0.14-- 24...Dc6 (7.963.515) 252
14/40 0:40 -0.14 24...Dc6 (10.458.195) 255
15/40 1:07 -0.39-- 24...Dc6 (16.886.999) 248
15/40 1:34 -0.39 24...Dc6 (24.060.802) 255
16/43 2:35 -0.64-- 24...Dc6 (38.575.983) 247
16/43 4:44 -1.31 24...Dc6 25.Txf7 Kxf7 26.Pd6+ Dxd6
27.Lh5+ Kg8 28.Lxd6 Pf5 29.De1 (72.069.064) 252
17/45 10:52 -1.06++ 24...Dc6 (165.346.255) 253
17/45 11:43 -1.06 24...Dc6 25.Txf7 Kxf7 (176.694.557) 251
18/45 14:42 -1.31-- 24...Dc6 (216.286.597) 245
18/48 17:11 -1.31 24...Dc6 25.Txf7 Kxf7 26.Pd6+ Kg8
27.Pxe8 Pf5 28.Dg6 Dc3 29.Dxe6+ Kh8
30.Dxf5 Dxd2 31.Df7 (255.723.580) 247
19/51 44:20 -1.29 24...Dc6 25.Txf7 Kxf7 26.Pd6+ Dxd6
27.Lxd6 Pf5 28.Lh5+ Kg8 29.De1 Pxd6
30.Txd6 Tf8 31.Dxe6+ Kh8 32.Lf7 Pc5
33.De7 Le6 34.Txe6 Pxe6 35.Dxe6 Tac8
36.De7 b5 37.Kg1 a5 (687.398.157) 258
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Alkelele
Re: Can your engine find this move from the 6th Freestyle fi
No, I didn't use a a 64 CPU machine when I found this (gasp!). I used a quad core Intel and a dual core AMD, both running Rybka 2.3.2a. The position is interesting for me because I found the entire combination within 3 minutes, analysing as centaur, while I suspect that a pure Rybka would not play 24.Bc7 even after many hours of analysis. Additionally, I wonder if any other angines are substantially better than Rybka here.Eelco de Groot wrote: The move 24.Bc7 is not completely impossible to find. I don't think Dagh was using a 64 CPU machine and he found it, without even using Rybka!
If Hiarcs doesn't see the strength 30.Qxf5 from the root position, I hardly think it can be said to solve the position yet. It would only prefer 24.Bc7 due to differences in evaluation, not because it found the crucial line yet.
If an engine changes to 26...Qxd6 in the mainline and gives white a big score, it should be a sign that it had found out about the strength of 30.Qxf5.
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Alkelele
Re: Can your engine find this move from the 6th Freestyle fi
Is Zappa Zanzibar still calculating, struggling to find 24.Bc7?Chris Taylor wrote:I am going to put ZapChess Zanzibar 64 bit on this. My next post will be that then! If I do get chance I will bang Rybka on as well.
Happy weekends regards..
Chris
