Regarding Strekla and CCT10+...

[Peter Skinner]

I received an email this evening from a previous competitor of the CCT's that I have, run asking if engines "like" Strekla will be allowed to enter CCT10.

As I truly never followed the great debate about the issue or the origins of that particular engine, it would be unfair to give an answer at this time.

I would like to keep this topic clean and free for Authors who have participated in the CCT events, and get their feedback on whether it should or should not be allowed to participate, and why.

If you would rather not post here pertaining to this issue, you can reply to td@cctchess.info.

Thank you.

Moderators:

Please remove any reply that is not from an obvious author or someone with a significant interest in the CCT events. (ie. ICC Admins, myself, sponsors) I don't want this to be a huge debate about whether it is a clone or not, but rather what other author's will do if it is or isn't allowed to participate.

[hgm]

Well, I am an author. And I probably would not participate in events were authors were allowed to 'vote out' programs of other authors.

I prefer justice over democracy...

[Thomas Mayer]

Hi Peter, Harm, Gabor,

I definitely agree to what Harm said, but I may add that when the statement of the author of Strelka was correctly translated then the state of Strelka is in particular an illegal engine in my opinion and therefor I would definitely NOT participate in a competition where such engines would be allowed. Additionally I would refuse to play in any competition that allows patchwork-engines like GridChess. So please don't destroy the CCTs and keep them an authors tournament. Thank you.

Greets, Thomas

[gerold]

Hi Peter, Harm, Gabor,

I definitely agree to what Harm said, but I may add that when the statement of the author of Strelka was correctly translated then the state of Strelka is in particular an illegal engine in my opinion and therefor I would definitely NOT participate in a competition where such engines would be allowed. Additionally I would refuse to play in any competition that allows patchwork-engines like GridChess. So please don't destroy the CCTs and keep them an authors tournament. Thank you.

Greets, Thomas

I can second that, Thomas,

Best,

Gerold.

[jdart]

I'm not personally all that upset about it. But it sounds like it isn't exactly a clone but has reverse-engineered eval terms from Rybka. So if you have Rybka also participating it then you have two rather similar entries, which is somewhat undesirable.

--Jon

[Tord Romstad]

I would like to keep this topic clean and free for Authors who have participated in the CCT events, and get their feedback on whether it should or should not be allowed to participate, and why.

Why do you ask? Whatever you decide to do, I think it is best to ignore the opinions of authors. In a competitive event, it makes no sense that the participants themselves take part in the deciding who should be allowed to participate. It is better to ask neutral people, i.e. non-authors. If you start giving in to pressure and threats from engine authors, it will be difficult to take the CCT seriously.

Ultimately, you are the one who makes the rules, and who decides whether a potential participant satisfies the rules.

I don't want this to be a huge debate about whether it is a clone or not, but rather what other author's will do if it is or isn't allowed to participate.

I agree with Harm Geert. Whether Strelka is or isn't allowed to play will not have any influence on what I will do. But if Strelka is excluded, and I suspect that the main reason it is not allowed to play is that the majority of authors don't want to play against it, I will definitely not play in the tournament.

Tord

[swami]

I would like to keep this topic clean and free for Authors who have participated in the CCT events, and get their feedback on whether it should or should not be allowed to participate, and why.

Why do you ask? Whatever you decide to do, I think it is best to ignore the opinions of authors. In a competitive event, it makes no sense that the participants themselves take part in the deciding who should be allowed to participate. It is better to ask neutral people, i.e. non-authors. If you start giving in to pressure and threats from engine authors, it will be difficult to take the CCT seriously.

Ultimately, you are the one who makes the rules, and who decides whether a potential participant satisfies the rules.

I don't want this to be a huge debate about whether it is a clone or not, but rather what other author's will do if it is or isn't allowed to participate.

I agree with Harm Geert. Whether Strelka is or isn't allowed to play will not have any influence on what I will do. But if Strelka is excluded, and I suspect that the main reason it is not allowed to play is that the majority of authors don't want to play against it, I will definitely not play in the tournament.

Tord

Hi Tord,

Well Said!

I bet most of the authors wouldn't not want Strelka to participate in the tournament because it is the strong engine.

Would the author of strong engine mind if there is an entry like 1500 rated engine reverse engineered from open source programs?I bet they wouldn't.

You are the only exception, Tord. You get my applause!

Most of the members failed to provide proof that it is a clone even after knowing that it was reverse engineered from another program, Even Experts like Michael, Dann , Bryan, Hristo have stated that it is not a clone.

Regards.

[mjlef]

I would like to keep this topic clean and free for Authors who have participated in the CCT events, and get their feedback on whether it should or should not be allowed to participate, and why.

Why do you ask? Whatever you decide to do, I think it is best to ignore the opinions of authors. In a competitive event, it makes no sense that the participants themselves take part in the deciding who should be allowed to participate. It is better to ask neutral people, i.e. non-authors. If you start giving in to pressure and threats from engine authors, it will be difficult to take the CCT seriously.

Ultimately, you are the one who makes the rules, and who decides whether a potential participant satisfies the rules.

I don't want this to be a huge debate about whether it is a clone or not, but rather what other author's will do if it is or isn't allowed to participate.

I agree with Harm Geert. Whether Strelka is or isn't allowed to play will not have any influence on what I will do. But if Strelka is excluded, and I suspect that the main reason it is not allowed to play is that the majority of authors don't want to play against it, I will definitely not play in the tournament.

Tord

I agree with Tord completely. The reality is we will never be sure what an author has been taken from other programs. Although I think all of us would rather play against unique entries, and not highly similar ones, we will really never know this, except for open source engines we can verify. And since so many top programs often refuse to play anyway (Rybka being a wonderful exception), these tournaments may never be sure of finding out who is best anyway.

[ozziejoe]

Peter, I am surprised you would ask this opinion publically, but than ask the moderators to censor people who do not belong to the "correct" group (programers, moderators, sponsers).

Perhaps we will never decide if strelka is ever a clone, exactly. The point is that it plays so much like rybka beta as to be uninteresting. I would not prohibit it from entering tournaments. I would simply be disinterested in its games....

[BubbaTough]

I am an author, and I believe the decision should be up to the person putting their own sweat into organizing the tournament on the behalf of people like me. I plan to participate regardless of your decision.

-Sam