Win or draw?

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Torstein

Win or draw?

Post by Torstein » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:52 pm

I just played first round in the club tournament.
After quite a few errors I ended up in this position:
[D]3Q2k1/4Bpp1/7p/1p2P3/p1q5/5PK1/6P1/8 b - - 0 63

I can not find a win for myself with white.
Its hard to get good answers from software, but Rybka mainly stays put at +1 pawn for white, and that may mean its a draw....

Jack Lad
Posts: 8557
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: UK

Re: Win or draw?

Post by Jack Lad » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:28 am

Torstein wrote:I just played first round in the club tournament.
After quite a few errors I ended up in this position:
[D]3Q2k1/4Bpp1/7p/1p2P3/p1q5/5PK1/6P1/8 b - - 0 63

I can not find a win for myself with white.
Its hard to get good answers from software, but Rybka mainly stays put at +1 pawn for white, and that may mean its a draw....
1. ............Kg8-h7
2. Qd8-d2 Qc4-e6
3. Qd2-d3+ Kh7-h8
4. Be7-d6 b5-b4
5. Bd6xb4 Qe6xe5+
6. f3-f4 Qe5-e6
7. Kg3-h2 f7-f6
8. Qd3-d8+ Kh8-h7
9. Qd8-d4 Qe6-f5
10. Bb4-d6 Qf5-h5+
11. Kh2-g3 Qh5-g6+
12. Kg3-f3 Qg6-f5
13. Qd4-e4 Qf5xe4+
14. Kf3xe4 Kh7-g6
15. Bd6-a3 Kg6-h7
16. f4-f5 g7-g6
17. f5xg6+ Kh7xg6
18. Ke4-f4 h6-h5
19. Ba3-d6 f6-f5
20. Bd6-a3 Kg6-f6
21. Ba3-c1 Kf6-g6
22. Bc1-b2 h5-h4
23. Bb2-c1 Kg6-f6
24. Bc1-a3 Kf6-g6
25. Ba3-b2 h4-h3
26. g2xh3 Kg6-h5
27. Kf4-g3 Kh5-g5
28. Bb2-a3 f5-f4+
29. Kg3-g2 Kg5-g6
30. Ba3-e7 Kg6-f7
31. Be7-g5 a4-a3
32. Bg5xf4 Kf7-e6
33. Bf4-c1 a3-a2
34. Bc1-b2 Ke6-d5
35. h3-h4 Kd5-e4
36. Bb2-g7 a2-a1Q
37. Bg7xa1 Resigns
[d] 8/8/8/8/4k2P/8/6K1/B7 b - - 1 37
Now cracks a noble heart.—Good night, sweet Princess, And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest!

bob
Posts: 20923
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Re: Win or draw?

Post by bob » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:52 am

I don't understand what all of that is. Two engines playing against each other? or an engine playing against itself? Neither is worth a flip at deciding whether the original position is a win or draw (or worse)...

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JVMerlino
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Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: San Francisco, California

Re: Win or draw?

Post by JVMerlino » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:09 pm

CM9_R1 on a P4-3.0 says it looks like a draw:

Code: Select all

Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
----	----	----	----		----
0:00	1/3	0.18	1257		64.Qd2 Kg8 65.Qb2
0:00	1/4	0.23	2898		64.Qd2 Qe6 65.Qc2+ Kg8 66.Bd6
0:00	1/4	0.29	5092		64.Qd1 Kg8 65.Qb1 Qe2 66.Bd6
0:00	1/5	0.15	10507		64.Qd1 Kg8 65.Qa1 g5 66.Kf2 Qc2+
					67.Kg1
0:00	1/5	0.34	16416		64.Qd2 Kg8 65.Qb2 h5 66.Ba3
0:00	1/6	0.31	37507		64.Qd2 Qb3 65.Qb4 Qe6 66.Qb1+ Kg8
					67.Bd6 Qc4
0:00	1/7	0.41	87776		64.Qd2 Qb3 65.Qb4 Qd3 66.Qb2 Kg8
					67.Bc5 Qc4
0:01	1/8	0.46	194307		64.Qd2 Kg8 65.Qb2 h5 66.Ba3 h4+
					67.Kh2 Qf4+ 68.Kh1 Qc4
0:02	1/9	0.41	395565		64.Qd2 Kg8 65.Qb2 h5 66.Ba3 h4+
					67.Kf2 Qd3 68.Be7 Qc4 69.Qa3
0:04	1/10	0.47	938429		64.Qd2 Qb3 65.Qb4 Qe6 66.Bd6 Qg6+
					67.Kh2 Qd3 68.Qb2 Qc4 69.Kg1 Kg8
0:10	1/11	0.50	2081580		64.Qd2 Qb3 65.Qb4 Qe6 66.Bd6 Qg6+
					67.Kh2 Qd3 68.Qb2 Qc4 69.Kg1 Kg8
					70.g3
0:26	2/12	0.53	5552835		64.Qd2 Qb3 65.Qb4 Qd3 66.Qb2 Qf1
					67.Bc5 Kg8 68.Bb4 Qc4 69.Ba3 h5
1:23	3/13	0.50	17598638	64.Qd2 Kg8 65.Qb2 Qf1 66.Kf4 Qd3
					67.Ba3 h5 68.Kg3 Qf1 69.Kh2 Qc4
					70.Kg1 Qd3
4:35	4/14	0.54	58096021	64.Qd2 Kg8 65.Qb2 Qf1 66.Kf4 Qd3
					67.Ba3 h5 68.Kg3 Qe3 69.Kh3 Qd3
					70.Kh2 Qc4 71.Kg1
14:34	5/15	0.56	182743063	64.Qd2 Kg8 65.Qb2 Qf1 66.Kf4 Qd3
					67.g4 Kh8 68.Kg3 Qc4 69.Ba3 Kg8
					70.Kg2 Qd3 71.Bc5 Qc4
jm

playjunior
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:53 pm

Re: Win or draw?

Post by playjunior » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:55 pm

I analysed a little with Toga and Glaurung 2: whatever I tried to swap queens black goes for it and makes a fortress.
I am almost sure it's a draw.

Torstein

Re: Win or draw?

Post by Torstein » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:34 am

I am quite shure its objectivily is a draw, but as I hate to give away a draw I will probably try to switch queens, if black alows me. And then try to win the endgame with Bishop vs. 2 pawns

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