Chess programs are worth more than ever! get all?

[S.Taylor]

http://www.newinchess.com/Shop/ProductD ... uctID=2135

Remember not that long ago, when Shredder 7.04 dominated the scene for 2 years?
This was after Hiarcs 7 had done the same, and that was preceded from Genius 3.
So Shredder was staggering, and no other program seemed to reach that mark. There were other great programs, but it took a long time for Shredder 7.04 to be overtaken.
Only now (even just before Rybka came out), is Shredder 7.04 highly overpowered, a thing I could only DREAM about at the time.
So even though Rybka is a major major dream, the top programs under it are also WAY WAY ahead of what WAS absolutely great.
Therefore it would seem to me that any comercial program from the top ones, are all very very good buys. Maybe they are all well above the legendary deeper blue, on todays common computers.
So shouldn't we be very appreciative?
If we get any of them, our money would seem to have been well spent!

[ArmoredGuns]

http://www.newinchess.com/Shop/ProductD ... uctID=2135

Remember not that long ago, when Shredder 7.04 dominated the scene for 2 years?
This was after Hiarcs 7 had done the same, and that was preceded from Genius 3.
So Shredder was staggering, and no other program seemed to reach that mark. There were other great programs, but it took a long time for Shredder 7.04 to be overtaken.
Only now (even just before Rybka came out), is Shredder 7.04 highly overpowered, a thing I could only DREAM about at the time.
So even though Rybka is a major major dream, the top programs under it are also WAY WAY ahead of what WAS absolutely great.
Therefore it would seem to me that any comercial program from the top ones, are all very very good buys. Maybe they are all well above the legendary deeper blue, on todays common computers.
So shouldn't we be very appreciative?
If we get any of them, our money would seem to have been well spent!

New chess programs are catching up with Rybka. It's a slow process, but it's happening. I think that the new shredder and zappa can keep up with pre 2.3 versions of Rybka, and not so long ago they were considered the best.

An 80 elo gain is definately worth something, but I think not enough to keep with the current toppers, specially since Fritz is released approximately once every two years, while Rybka is about to get 3.0, Naum and Hiarcs will soon improve and there's Smarthink on the way.

[gerold]

http://www.newinchess.com/Shop/ProductD ... uctID=2135

Remember not that long ago, when Shredder 7.04 dominated the scene for 2 years?
This was after Hiarcs 7 had done the same, and that was preceded from Genius 3.
So Shredder was staggering, and no other program seemed to reach that mark. There were other great programs, but it took a long time for Shredder 7.04 to be overtaken.
Only now (even just before Rybka came out), is Shredder 7.04 highly overpowered, a thing I could only DREAM about at the time.
So even though Rybka is a major major dream, the top programs under it are also WAY WAY ahead of what WAS absolutely great.
Therefore it would seem to me that any comercial program from the top ones, are all very very good buys. Maybe they are all well above the legendary deeper blue, on todays common computers.
So shouldn't we be very appreciative?
If we get any of them, our money would seem to have been well spent!

New chess programs are catching up with Rybka. It's a slow process, but it's happening. I think that the new shredder and zappa can keep up with pre 2.3 versions of Rybka, and not so long ago they were considered the best.

An 80 elo gain is definately worth something, but I think not enough to keep with the current toppers, specially since Fritz is released approximately once every two years, while Rybka is about to get 3.0, Naum and Hiarcs will soon improve and there's Smarthink on the way.

I note that there is one thing i think will be improved. In the end
game when the computer has the game won it will go after pawns
that has no effect on the outcome. They could forget these pawns and go straight for the win instead giving me a slow death

There will be another program written that will make the present
ones look weak.

Best to you,

Gerold.

[S.Taylor]

[

An 80 elo gain is definately worth something, but I think not enough to keep with the current toppers, specially since Fritz is released approximately once every two years, while Rybka is about to get 3.0, Naum and Hiarcs will soon improve and there's Smarthink on the way.

This is interesting what you say, that Fritz isn't among the first 3-4 under Rybka. But are you even sure that it is really a 80 elo improvement over Fritz 10? Maybe even that is an over estimtaion?

Still, Even if Fritz 11 is an increase of only 40 elo, isn't it still way above Shredder 7.04, and maybe even above the deep blue of 1997? And on top of that, they claim it is packed full of great features (maybe better training features than even before seen?). Is it really not that good?

[Ovyron]

Therefore it would seem to me that any comercial program from the top ones, are all very very good buys. Maybe they are all well above the legendary deeper blue, on todays common computers.

Not only that, but I bet that top freeware programs are well above the legendary deep blue as well.

[Dann Corbit]

http://www.newinchess.com/Shop/ProductD ... uctID=2135

Remember not that long ago, when Shredder 7.04 dominated the scene for 2 years?
This was after Hiarcs 7 had done the same, and that was preceded from Genius 3.
So Shredder was staggering, and no other program seemed to reach that mark. There were other great programs, but it took a long time for Shredder 7.04 to be overtaken.
Only now (even just before Rybka came out), is Shredder 7.04 highly overpowered, a thing I could only DREAM about at the time.
So even though Rybka is a major major dream, the top programs under it are also WAY WAY ahead of what WAS absolutely great.
Therefore it would seem to me that any comercial program from the top ones, are all very very good buys. Maybe they are all well above the legendary deeper blue, on todays common computers.
So shouldn't we be very appreciative?
If we get any of them, our money would seem to have been well spent!

I am with you on this. Quite frankly, I think that incredibly talented people have created chess monsters that rival the best players in the world. For the cost of lunch at that Italian resteraunt across the street, you can have Karpov or Morphy at your beck and call.

The latest generation of chess programs can even analyze openings if you let them think long enough. The older ones, on the slow machines of the time would produce comedy answers. So we are living in the golden age of chess computation now and we can get fantastic chess answers and entertainment for a song.

[Dann Corbit]

Therefore it would seem to me that any comercial program from the top ones, are all very very good buys. Maybe they are all well above the legendary deeper blue, on todays common computers.

Not only that, but I bet that top freeware programs are well above the legendary deep blue as well.

Not to be contrary, but I doubt it. Even though Deep Blue was overly cautious about pruning some things, at 200M NPS the wider view will turn up things that other programs are likely to miss from pruning. It would be better to be more selective, but still formidable. If I recall correctly, after a certain time (I seem to recall 30-45 seconds) Deep Blue also did deeper, speculative searches.

Of course, we will never know how Deep Blue compares to today's stuff because the experiment has been dismantled. It would have been great fun to watch Hydra and Deep Blue battle but it would also be great fun to see Unicorns on the moon.

Now, ten years from now, whatever we have on our desktops will outsearch Deep Blue in terms of pure NPS. From the 200 M NPS point forward, we can consider Deep Blue as a footnote to what was once incomprehensible chess computing power but will then be ho-humm.

[S.Taylor]

Therefore it would seem to me that any comercial program from the top ones, are all very very good buys. Maybe they are all well above the legendary deeper blue, on todays common computers.

Not only that, but I bet that top freeware programs are well above the legendary deep blue as well.

Not to be contrary, but I doubt it. Even though Deep Blue was overly cautious about pruning some things, at 200M NPS the wider view will turn up things that other programs are likely to miss from pruning. It would be better to be more selective, but still formidable. If I recall correctly, after a certain time (I seem to recall 30-45 seconds) Deep Blue also did deeper, speculative searches.

Of course, we will never know how Deep Blue compares to today's stuff because the experiment has been dismantled. It would have been great fun to watch Hydra and Deep Blue battle but it would also be great fun to see Unicorns on the moon.

Now, ten years from now, whatever we have on our desktops will outsearch Deep Blue in terms of pure NPS. From the 200 M NPS point forward, we can consider Deep Blue as a footnote to what was once incomprehensible chess computing power but will then be ho-humm.

I remember Bob Hyatts endless defense of Deep Blue several years later, saying that no program came anywhere near it.
I would be interested to know if he would also agree today, that the top programs on todays better but regular hardware are indeed stronger at chess than deep blue of 1997.
WE seem to agree on it that yes. But does HE?

[fern]

The sad part is that as software lives his golden age, my brain is in the brass age, at most....

Well...

Chessmaster 2100 send his regards
Fdo

[Ovyron]

Not only that, but I bet that top freeware programs are well above the legendary deep blue as well.

Not to be contrary, but I doubt it.

I'm pretty sure Rybka 1.0 Beta could beat Deep Blue, Rybka Beta was just far ahead of its time and revolutionized computer chess, without it, I think we would be still stuck getting marginal results (Like we were for some time).

Maybe Rybka 1.0 Beta would need a 64bit processor, maybe it would win by a small margin, but I just can't imagine Deep Blue beating it.