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Re: Father versus Fruit 2.3.5h ......AHEM>.............

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:50 pm
by skoony
alex,
no one is personaly attacking pablo.
we're simply pointing out the absurdity of his personal horn blowing.
this so called fudamental flaw in chess programs is well known,documented,and taken atvantage of.
the point is nobody cares,or should care.
who likes watching some one kick a one eyed dog from the blind side?

regards
mike

Re: Father versus Fruit 2.3.5h ......AHEM>.............

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:10 pm
by Bill Rogers
Skoony
I don't agree with your comments at all. After all this is a chess site and anything related to chess or how to beat it is welcome news. As an author of a chess program I study 'fathers' games very intently as I believe it may help me develope a stronger chess program. If you stop and think about it anyone who can show us some major weakness in chess programs should be very welcome here, how else are we going to learn to make our programs better.
Bill

Re: Father versus Fruit 2.3.5h ......AHEM>.............

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:11 pm
by Uri
It's possible to beat chess programs with premove. But premove also has risks because you don't always know the opponent's response. In certain positions he doesn't have much choice but it's not always the case. So you assume it to be the best response but if the opponent plays a move which is different from the move you thought he will play then with premove you cannot respond properly or accurately to the opponent's move.

Re: Father versus Fruit 2.3.5h ......AHEM>.............

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:13 pm
by Ovyron
He only uses premove when he only needs to shuffle the pieces, like Kh2-Kg1. The moves that have {0} in them, were played with premove (or lag) instantly and so he could play infinite moves like that while the opponent's clock is going down.

Re: Father versus Fruit 2.3.5h ......AHEM>.............

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:34 pm
by geots
Nimzovik wrote:It merits half of a page of threads because certain mechanisms/dynamics are occuring in these posts 1) Pablo needs to be defended as he is personally attacked. This is simply wrong. His english lends to a certain APPARENT bravado. This is not the truth of the man who is actually very humble. He is actually just a very poetic soul that is not bragging -he is showing a well known weakness of programs - a certain inabilty to handle certain types of positonal chess. His repeated postings (games) of his approach to chess is REQUIRED when met with -again I MUST state- DENIAL of a particular truth. (That the programs can not at this stage of development grasps such abstract concepts of -shall we say 'blocking' the position on the board.) How many programs do YOU know that play like a Nimzovich? The WIN against the machine is NOT the issue for all the time glitch and GUI issues mentioned. The fact that the positions are a DRAW is the issue. As we all know a draw against an opponent in a tournament is definitely a strong tactic at times- just ask Petrosian-or perhaps his ghost :D .2) As I said check out the youtube video. Pablo's ideas are becoming a way to compete against machines by other STRONG players The machines are going to have to DEAL with that. :wink:
Hi Alex. There is only one problem with all these draws as far as competing in a tournament goes. As was quoted about the late "best"- "The incessant tiptoeing in the shallow waters of draws offers no hope against Fischer". (I actually thought about that quote when watching Topalov and Kasparov doing just that ag. each other.) As for tournament play as you refer to, somewhere along the line he is going to have to start winning games ag. these machines. And it just isnt going to happen. I do however agree with you that to some degree it could conceivably help engine programmmers deal with such problems. But i honestly dont think they care much about that one way or the other.

Best,

Alex. Where could I find "anticomputers videos" in

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:50 pm
by Father
Alex.
I would like to know, where, could I find some anticomputers games, some like, antichess, in youtube videos......Thanks in advance. :D
Pablo

Re: Alex. Where could I find "anticomputers videos"

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:00 pm
by Dr.Wael Deeb
Father wrote:Alex.
I would like to know, where, could I find some anticomputers games, some like, antichess, in youtube videos......Thanks in advance. :D
Pablo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wzT4vafXOA

Re: Alex. Where could I find "anticomputers videos"

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:46 pm
by Damir
Nice one Mr Deeb. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Alex. Where could I find "anticomputers videos"

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:01 pm
by Dr.Wael Deeb
Damir wrote:Nice one Mr Deeb. :lol: :lol: :lol:
On Topic,no :!: :?:

Re: Father versus Fruit 2.3.5h ......AHEM>.............

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:48 am
by Nimzovik
THANK YOU!!! This is a more objective and a valid point Mr. Rogers !! :D sorry this is a repeat message--I screwed up the process.