strelka 2.0

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Tony Thomas

Re: Strelka 2.0

Post by Tony Thomas » Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:05 am

It's much easier to send him a PM, then he will send you a pm with the link to JA compiled downloads.

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slobo
Posts: 2331
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:36 pm

Re: Strelka 2.0

Post by slobo » Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:10 am

ozziejoe wrote:You said:
"We would have a fraud if Osipov says, for example: "Strelka is an original engine", or "I am the author of that original engine". That would be a fraud because we would have a contradiction between a concept and the reality.

But Osipov doesn´t say nothing of these, and that is the problem you don´t handle well."

A man who beats his wife and brags about it-----still beats his wife. He is no fraud, true, but he is still a piece of sh%$t.

Stealing programming from another and then making it public is morally repugnant to me. I think it is especially bad in computer chess, where the talented programmers are struggling to make a living.

And then there is the attempt of the author of strelka to spoil vasik's reputation (by accusing him of stealing fruit code). That is not fraud, true, but is it slander? Did not Fabien (of fruit) look at the strelka code and say it was not stolen (and I trust uri on this report)? Fruit ideas where there, but not code.

The continued defense of the strelka clone is one of the strangest, most inexplicable thing on this listserve. I have seen other cloners dismissed universally. What makes the author of strelka special? Is it that his unethical act required some intelligence?


peace my friends

J
"And then there is the attempt of the author of strelka to spoil vasik's reputation"

Ask Crafty´s author about Rybka´s author reputation.

"Stealing programming from another and then making it public is morally repugnant to me."

It is your interpretation, but it is not universal. On the contrary: it is rather ethnocentric.

It´s a pity to see that there are a lot of people who consider Robin Hood a simple stealer.

Let´s put a little light on the problem:

You are a stealer when you steal something from people who are NOT in debt with anyone.

You are probably a kind of stealer when you steal something from people who ARE in debt with others, and use stolen things for your proper benefits.

But, when you "steal" someone who is in debt with others, and you share "stolen things" with others, you are Robin Hood.


Of course, you are not obliged to accept my logic, but you should, at least, think a little more about other models of thinking and seeing the world, before blaming people you don´t like.
"Well, I´m just a soul whose intentions are good,
Oh Lord, please don´t let me be misunderstood."

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michiguel
Posts: 6389
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Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA
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Re: Strelka 2.0

Post by michiguel » Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:27 am

slobo wrote:
ozziejoe wrote:You said:
"We would have a fraud if Osipov says, for example: "Strelka is an original engine", or "I am the author of that original engine". That would be a fraud because we would have a contradiction between a concept and the reality.

But Osipov doesn´t say nothing of these, and that is the problem you don´t handle well."

A man who beats his wife and brags about it-----still beats his wife. He is no fraud, true, but he is still a piece of sh%$t.

Stealing programming from another and then making it public is morally repugnant to me. I think it is especially bad in computer chess, where the talented programmers are struggling to make a living.

And then there is the attempt of the author of strelka to spoil vasik's reputation (by accusing him of stealing fruit code). That is not fraud, true, but is it slander? Did not Fabien (of fruit) look at the strelka code and say it was not stolen (and I trust uri on this report)? Fruit ideas where there, but not code.

The continued defense of the strelka clone is one of the strangest, most inexplicable thing on this listserve. I have seen other cloners dismissed universally. What makes the author of strelka special? Is it that his unethical act required some intelligence?


peace my friends

J

"And then there is the attempt of the author of strelka to spoil vasik's reputation"

Ask Crafty´s author about Rybka´s author reputation.

"Stealing programming from another and then making it public is morally repugnant to me."

It is your interpretation, but it is not universal. On the contrary: it is rather ethnocentric.

It´s a pity to see that there are a lot of people who consider Robin Hood a simple stealer.

Let´s put a little light on the problem:

You are a stealer when you steal something from people who are NOT in debt with anyone.

You are probably a kind of stealer when you steal something from people who ARE in debt with others, and use stolen things for your proper benefits.

But, when you "steal" someone who is in debt with others, and you share "stolen things" with others, you are Robin Hood.


Of course, you are not obliged to accept my logic, but you should, at least, think a little more about other models of thinking and seeing the world, before blaming people you don´t like.
Robin Hood? Models of thinking? I was away from CC when all this happened and I do not know the details, but this post makes me chuckle... I can't stop thinking about Discepolo, a great tango song writer who wrote "Cambalache" (a great name for an engine) in 1930's . The translation is the following (it loses a lot though from spanish, a modified it a bit from the following page):

http://www.planet-tango.com/lyrics/cambalac.htm

"That the world was and it will be filthy,
I already know...
In the year five hundred and six
and in the year two thousand too!
There always have been thieves,
traitors and victims of fraud,
happy and bitter people,
valuables and imitations
But, that the twentieth century
is a display
of insolent malice,
nobody can deny it anymore.
We lived sunk in a fuzz
and in the same mud
all well-worn...

Today, it happens that is the same
to be decent or a traitor!
To be an ignorant, a genius, a pickpocket,
a generous person or a swindler!
All is the same! Nothing is better!
They are the same... a dunce
and a great professor!
There are no failing grades or merit valuations,
the immoral have caught up with us.
If one lives in a pose
and another, in his ambition, steals,
it's the same if it's a priest,
a mattress maker, a king of clubs,
a cad or a tramp.

What a lack of respect,
what a way to run over reason!
Anybody is a gentleman!
Anybody is a thief!
Mixed with Stravinsky, you have Don Bosco
and La Mignon
Don Chicho and Napoleon,
Carnera and San Martin.
Like in the disrespectful window
of the bazaars,
life has been mixed up
and wounded by a sword without rivets.
You can see a Bible crying
next to a water heater.

Twentieth century, bazaar
problematic and feverish!
Whoever don't cry don't get fed
and whoever don't steal is a fool.
Go ahead! Keep it up!
Down there, in hell,
we're gonna reunite.
Don't think anymore,
move out of the way.
Nobody seems to care
if you were born straight.
It's the same the one who works,
day and night like an ox,
than the one who lives from others,
than the one that kills or heals
or than the one who's an outlaw."

Timeless powerful tango. Maybe this should be moved to CTF :-)

Miguel

rfadden

Re: Strelka 2.0

Post by rfadden » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:28 pm

slobo wrote:
"And then there is the attempt of the author of strelka to spoil vasik's reputation"

Ask Crafty´s author about Rybka´s author reputation.

"Stealing programming from another and then making it public is morally repugnant to me."

It is your interpretation, but it is not universal. On the contrary: it is rather ethnocentric.

It´s a pity to see that there are a lot of people who consider Robin Hood a simple stealer.

Let´s put a little light on the problem:

You are a stealer when you steal something from people who are NOT in debt with anyone.

You are probably a kind of stealer when you steal something from people who ARE in debt with others, and use stolen things for your proper benefits.

But, when you "steal" someone who is in debt with others, and you share "stolen things" with others, you are Robin Hood.


Of course, you are not obliged to accept my logic, but you should, at least, think a little more about other models of thinking and seeing the world, before blaming people you don´t like.
The fraud is due to the fact that Jury Osipov implemented the author strings to say that he is the author. He did not credit Vasic. He also entered his program in at least one computer chess tournament in Russia, and from the posts that I have seen he continues to deny that he reverse engineered Rybka. He wants to be known as an author of a great chess program and yet I have seen that there are no original lines of code in Strelka, everything is exactly matching Rybka (except for the addition of PV display).

So Jury has tried to benefit from this theft of intellectual property.
He denys that it is theft. He is on record in interviews as saying this is his own work.

This continued defense of Jury Osipov looks "political" to me. This looks like a typical "gang" or "clique" mentality. Slobodan perhaps identifies with Jury in some way outside of computer chess, and so Jury is to be defended at all costs. That's my guess.

So this is not an intellectual angle, I think this is an example of typical politics.

Here is an example of this "alignment" or gang or group thinking: I happen to like Bob Hyatt. He helped me years ago, and he has been great to me... So if Bob belches in public (just an example) I am going to come on and defend belching in public. I will tell you all of the reasons why belching means nothing and how this is no issue relating to character. If anyone attempts to say something bad about Bob, I will defend him instinctively, because I either am, or I consider myself to be in his "posse." He might not even know that I am in his "posse" but I *think* I am, or I think this way, so I instinctively defend Bob.

I suspect that Slobodan thinks of himself as part of Jury Osipov's "posse" and so he defends Jury no matter what.

If Jury commits a crime then Slobodan would instinctively write that it is not a crime.

I believe this is all politically motivated and so Slobodan does not look very "intellectual" here as he defends his friend/buddy Jury...

My friend/buddy is Bob, so don't anyone even *think* about saying anything bad about Bob. I'm in his posse...


Keep in mind I'm writing my opinion. I have described the pattern that I see. I have encountered a lot of this "political bias" over the years and generally I don't like dealing with politics.

Dann Corbit
Posts: 10187
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA
Contact:

Re: Strelka 2.0

Post by Dann Corbit » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:06 pm

rfadden wrote:
slobo wrote:
"And then there is the attempt of the author of strelka to spoil vasik's reputation"

Ask Crafty´s author about Rybka´s author reputation.

"Stealing programming from another and then making it public is morally repugnant to me."

It is your interpretation, but it is not universal. On the contrary: it is rather ethnocentric.

It´s a pity to see that there are a lot of people who consider Robin Hood a simple stealer.

Let´s put a little light on the problem:

You are a stealer when you steal something from people who are NOT in debt with anyone.

You are probably a kind of stealer when you steal something from people who ARE in debt with others, and use stolen things for your proper benefits.

But, when you "steal" someone who is in debt with others, and you share "stolen things" with others, you are Robin Hood.


Of course, you are not obliged to accept my logic, but you should, at least, think a little more about other models of thinking and seeing the world, before blaming people you don´t like.
The fraud is due to the fact that Jury Osipov implemented the author strings to say that he is the author. He did not credit Vasic. He also entered his program in at least one computer chess tournament in Russia, and from the posts that I have seen he continues to deny that he reverse engineered Rybka. He wants to be known as an author of a great chess program and yet I have seen that there are no original lines of code in Strelka, everything is exactly matching Rybka (except for the addition of PV display).
This is just as untruthful as the most outrageous thing Mr. Osipov has ever said.
So Jury has tried to benefit from this theft of intellectual property.
He denys that it is theft. He is on record in interviews as saying this is his own work.

This continued defense of Jury Osipov looks "political" to me. This looks like a typical "gang" or "clique" mentality. Slobodan perhaps identifies with Jury in some way outside of computer chess, and so Jury is to be defended at all costs. That's my guess.

So this is not an intellectual angle, I think this is an example of typical politics.

Here is an example of this "alignment" or gang or group thinking: I happen to like Bob Hyatt. He helped me years ago, and he has been great to me... So if Bob belches in public (just an example) I am going to come on and defend belching in public. I will tell you all of the reasons why belching means nothing and how this is no issue relating to character. If anyone attempts to say something bad about Bob, I will defend him instinctively, because I either am, or I consider myself to be in his "posse." He might not even know that I am in his "posse" but I *think* I am, or I think this way, so I instinctively defend Bob.

I suspect that Slobodan thinks of himself as part of Jury Osipov's "posse" and so he defends Jury no matter what.

If Jury commits a crime then Slobodan would instinctively write that it is not a crime.

I believe this is all politically motivated and so Slobodan does not look very "intellectual" here as he defends his friend/buddy Jury...

My friend/buddy is Bob, so don't anyone even *think* about saying anything bad about Bob. I'm in his posse...


Keep in mind I'm writing my opinion. I have described the pattern that I see. I have encountered a lot of this "political bias" over the years and generally I don't like dealing with politics.
What Mr. Osipov did as far as reverse engineering was questionable in nature. However, this false image of what occurred is also bad behavior.

IMO-YMMV

Terry McCracken
Posts: 15844
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:16 am
Location: Canada

Re: Strelka 2.0

Post by Terry McCracken » Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:26 pm

slobo wrote:
ozziejoe wrote:You said:
"We would have a fraud if Osipov says, for example: "Strelka is an original engine", or "I am the author of that original engine". That would be a fraud because we would have a contradiction between a concept and the reality.

But Osipov doesn´t say nothing of these, and that is the problem you don´t handle well."

A man who beats his wife and brags about it-----still beats his wife. He is no fraud, true, but he is still a piece of sh%$t.

Stealing programming from another and then making it public is morally repugnant to me. I think it is especially bad in computer chess, where the talented programmers are struggling to make a living.

And then there is the attempt of the author of strelka to spoil vasik's reputation (by accusing him of stealing fruit code). That is not fraud, true, but is it slander? Did not Fabien (of fruit) look at the strelka code and say it was not stolen (and I trust uri on this report)? Fruit ideas where there, but not code.

The continued defense of the strelka clone is one of the strangest, most inexplicable thing on this listserve. I have seen other cloners dismissed universally. What makes the author of strelka special? Is it that his unethical act required some intelligence?


peace my friends

J

"And then there is the attempt of the author of strelka to spoil vasik's reputation"

Ask Crafty´s author about Rybka´s author reputation.

"Stealing programming from another and then making it public is morally repugnant to me."

It is your interpretation, but it is not universal. On the contrary: it is rather ethnocentric.

It´s a pity to see that there are a lot of people who consider Robin Hood a simple stealer.

Let´s put a little light on the problem:

You are a stealer when you steal something from people who are NOT in debt with anyone.

You are probably a kind of stealer when you steal something from people who ARE in debt with others, and use stolen things for your proper benefits.

But, when you "steal" someone who is in debt with others, and you share "stolen things" with others, you are Robin Hood.


Of course, you are not obliged to accept my logic, but you should, at least, think a little more about other models of thinking and seeing the world, before blaming people you don´t like.

Image

Why don't you update your avatar?

User avatar
Eelco de Groot
Posts: 4168
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:40 am
Location: Groningen

Re: Strelka 2.0

Post by Eelco de Groot » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:10 pm

How about this for an Avatar:

Image
or
Image

These are Toppy, Toppy, Toppy, Toppy, and Toppy. Actually there are seven of them. Although one was injured in a leg according to one news account the injured Toppy was doing fine after being treated in the University Laboratory. They are clones of the best drug detecting dog in South Korea, called Chase. As the training program is very expensive and most dogs don't pass, this was cheaper than trying to breed an equally good candidate for the job.

The clones are coming :)

Eelco

User avatar
slobo
Posts: 2331
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:36 pm

Re: Strelka 2.0

Post by slobo » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:10 am

Terry McCracken wrote:
slobo wrote:
ozziejoe wrote:You said:
"We would have a fraud if Osipov says, for example: "Strelka is an original engine", or "I am the author of that original engine". That would be a fraud because we would have a contradiction between a concept and the reality.

But Osipov doesn´t say nothing of these, and that is the problem you don´t handle well."

A man who beats his wife and brags about it-----still beats his wife. He is no fraud, true, but he is still a piece of sh%$t.

Stealing programming from another and then making it public is morally repugnant to me. I think it is especially bad in computer chess, where the talented programmers are struggling to make a living.

And then there is the attempt of the author of strelka to spoil vasik's reputation (by accusing him of stealing fruit code). That is not fraud, true, but is it slander? Did not Fabien (of fruit) look at the strelka code and say it was not stolen (and I trust uri on this report)? Fruit ideas where there, but not code.

The continued defense of the strelka clone is one of the strangest, most inexplicable thing on this listserve. I have seen other cloners dismissed universally. What makes the author of strelka special? Is it that his unethical act required some intelligence?


peace my friends

J

"And then there is the attempt of the author of strelka to spoil vasik's reputation"

Ask Crafty´s author about Rybka´s author reputation.

"Stealing programming from another and then making it public is morally repugnant to me."

It is your interpretation, but it is not universal. On the contrary: it is rather ethnocentric.

It´s a pity to see that there are a lot of people who consider Robin Hood a simple stealer.

Let´s put a little light on the problem:

You are a stealer when you steal something from people who are NOT in debt with anyone.

You are probably a kind of stealer when you steal something from people who ARE in debt with others, and use stolen things for your proper benefits.

But, when you "steal" someone who is in debt with others, and you share "stolen things" with others, you are Robin Hood.


Of course, you are not obliged to accept my logic, but you should, at least, think a little more about other models of thinking and seeing the world, before blaming people you don´t like.
Image

Why don't you update your avatar?

It was updated. The photo you published is 10 years old.
"Well, I´m just a soul whose intentions are good,
Oh Lord, please don´t let me be misunderstood."

User avatar
slobo
Posts: 2331
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:36 pm

Re: Strelka 2.0

Post by slobo » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:32 am

rfadden wrote:
slobo wrote:
"And then there is the attempt of the author of strelka to spoil vasik's reputation"

Ask Crafty´s author about Rybka´s author reputation.

"Stealing programming from another and then making it public is morally repugnant to me."

It is your interpretation, but it is not universal. On the contrary: it is rather ethnocentric.

It´s a pity to see that there are a lot of people who consider Robin Hood a simple stealer.

Let´s put a little light on the problem:

You are a stealer when you steal something from people who are NOT in debt with anyone.

You are probably a kind of stealer when you steal something from people who ARE in debt with others, and use stolen things for your proper benefits.

But, when you "steal" someone who is in debt with others, and you share "stolen things" with others, you are Robin Hood.


Of course, you are not obliged to accept my logic, but you should, at least, think a little more about other models of thinking and seeing the world, before blaming people you don´t like.
The fraud is due to the fact that Jury Osipov implemented the author strings to say that he is the author. He did not credit Vasic. He also entered his program in at least one computer chess tournament in Russia, and from the posts that I have seen he continues to deny that he reverse engineered Rybka. He wants to be known as an author of a great chess program and yet I have seen that there are no original lines of code in Strelka, everything is exactly matching Rybka (except for the addition of PV display).

So Jury has tried to benefit from this theft of intellectual property.
He denys that it is theft. He is on record in interviews as saying this is his own work.

This continued defense of Jury Osipov looks "political" to me. This looks like a typical "gang" or "clique" mentality. Slobodan perhaps identifies with Jury in some way outside of computer chess, and so Jury is to be defended at all costs. That's my guess.

So this is not an intellectual angle, I think this is an example of typical politics.

Here is an example of this "alignment" or gang or group thinking: I happen to like Bob Hyatt. He helped me years ago, and he has been great to me... So if Bob belches in public (just an example) I am going to come on and defend belching in public. I will tell you all of the reasons why belching means nothing and how this is no issue relating to character. If anyone attempts to say something bad about Bob, I will defend him instinctively, because I either am, or I consider myself to be in his "posse." He might not even know that I am in his "posse" but I *think* I am, or I think this way, so I instinctively defend Bob.

I suspect that Slobodan thinks of himself as part of Jury Osipov's "posse" and so he defends Jury no matter what.

If Jury commits a crime then Slobodan would instinctively write that it is not a crime.

I believe this is all politically motivated and so Slobodan does not look very "intellectual" here as he defends his friend/buddy Jury...

My friend/buddy is Bob, so don't anyone even *think* about saying anything bad about Bob. I'm in his posse...


Keep in mind I'm writing my opinion. I have described the pattern that I see. I have encountered a lot of this "political bias" over the years and generally I don't like dealing with politics.

You should first try to find out what your "friend" Bob thinks about Rybka´s author, before writing your nonsenses.
"Well, I´m just a soul whose intentions are good,
Oh Lord, please don´t let me be misunderstood."

Terry McCracken
Posts: 15844
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:16 am
Location: Canada

Re: Strelka 2.0

Post by Terry McCracken » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:40 am

slobo wrote:
Terry McCracken wrote:
slobo wrote:
ozziejoe wrote:You said:
"We would have a fraud if Osipov says, for example: "Strelka is an original engine", or "I am the author of that original engine". That would be a fraud because we would have a contradiction between a concept and the reality.

But Osipov doesn´t say nothing of these, and that is the problem you don´t handle well."

A man who beats his wife and brags about it-----still beats his wife. He is no fraud, true, but he is still a piece of sh%$t.

Stealing programming from another and then making it public is morally repugnant to me. I think it is especially bad in computer chess, where the talented programmers are struggling to make a living.

And then there is the attempt of the author of strelka to spoil vasik's reputation (by accusing him of stealing fruit code). That is not fraud, true, but is it slander? Did not Fabien (of fruit) look at the strelka code and say it was not stolen (and I trust uri on this report)? Fruit ideas where there, but not code.

The continued defense of the strelka clone is one of the strangest, most inexplicable thing on this listserve. I have seen other cloners dismissed universally. What makes the author of strelka special? Is it that his unethical act required some intelligence?


peace my friends

J

"And then there is the attempt of the author of strelka to spoil vasik's reputation"

Ask Crafty´s author about Rybka´s author reputation.

"Stealing programming from another and then making it public is morally repugnant to me."

It is your interpretation, but it is not universal. On the contrary: it is rather ethnocentric.

It´s a pity to see that there are a lot of people who consider Robin Hood a simple stealer.

Let´s put a little light on the problem:

You are a stealer when you steal something from people who are NOT in debt with anyone.

You are probably a kind of stealer when you steal something from people who ARE in debt with others, and use stolen things for your proper benefits.

But, when you "steal" someone who is in debt with others, and you share "stolen things" with others, you are Robin Hood.


Of course, you are not obliged to accept my logic, but you should, at least, think a little more about other models of thinking and seeing the world, before blaming people you don´t like.
Image

Why don't you update your avatar?
It was updated. The photo you published is 10 years old.
You published it...boy are you looking old :P

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