GMMilov vs Rybka 3 already begun on playchess.com

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Rolf
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GMMilov vs Rybka 3 already begun on playchess.com

Post by Rolf » Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:51 pm

13th move played. Great chess! Take a look for yourself.
-Popper and Lakatos are good but I'm stuck on Leibowitz

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: GMMilov vs Rybka 3 already begun on playchess.com

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:54 pm

Rolf wrote:13th move played. Great chess! Take a look for yourself.
He has already lost his first game with white :roll:
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

Damir
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Re: GMMilov vs Rybka 3 already begun on playchess.com

Post by Damir » Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:16 am

Yes, but there is no pawn advantage to GM this time. :D

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Rolf
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Re: GMMilov vs Rybka 3 already begun on playchess.com

Post by Rolf » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:44 am

Damir wrote:Yes, but there is no pawn advantage to GM this time. :D
Dont listen to Wael's distortions. Here in game two the advantage was a whole exchange for the GM. And Rybka managed to draw this.
-Popper and Lakatos are good but I'm stuck on Leibowitz

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Rolf
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Re: GMMilov vs Rybka 3 already begun on playchess.com

Post by Rolf » Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:38 am

8 games

2 with normal conditions

4 with exchange advantage

2 with move and pawn advantage

game 1 was normal

game 2 was exchange

today 2 more games

at 16 (=UTC +2) German time

at 22.30 German time
-Popper and Lakatos are good but I'm stuck on Leibowitz

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: GMMilov vs Rybka 3 already begun on playchess.com

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:47 pm

Rolf wrote:
Damir wrote:Yes, but there is no pawn advantage to GM this time. :D
Dont listen to Wael's distortions. Here in game two the advantage was a whole exchange for the GM. And Rybka managed to draw this.
My point is and has always been the following:
I am against this stupid odd type match in general and I blame the human GM for accepting to play under such conditions,got it Prof. Rolf :!: :?:
If I was a 2700+ GM with enough integrity and self respect,I'll set like a man playing the beast under normal conditions,like Adams did playing Hydra....
I am not saying anything bad about your mighty chess God called Rybka....
Heretic regards,
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

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Rolf
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Re: GMMilov vs Rybka 3 already begun on playchess.com

Post by Rolf » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:44 pm

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Rolf wrote:
Damir wrote:Yes, but there is no pawn advantage to GM this time. :D
Dont listen to Wael's distortions. Here in game two the advantage was a whole exchange for the GM. And Rybka managed to draw this.
My point is and has always been the following:
I am against this stupid odd type match in general and I blame the human GM for accepting to play under such conditions,got it Prof. Rolf :!: :?:
If I was a 2700+ GM with enough integrity and self respect,I'll set like a man playing the beast under normal conditions,like Adams did playing Hydra....
I am not saying anything bad about your mighty chess God called Rybka....
Heretic regards,
Dr.D
Why do you need to put down others to then imagine yourself as a God? I never told you anything abot this fascinating view how you would play and die like a man (in Adams style), so why do you need to call me professor? Just to punish me for my opinions? Is that democratic?

In truth you havent yet understood what this traditional man vs machine thing is all about.

Take a look into my critic against the IBM scientists who spoiled it all. Did Kasparov appear in NY in 1997 to fight the machine like a man?? in a typically normal chess match? Nope. No, it was a show event for the masses. With the expected outcome that he, Kasparov, would win. Because of the expected weaknesses of the machine. Now that failed because Kasparrov forgot about his own weaknesses as a man (in special his strong superstition). My main criticism is against the scientists who then claimed that they had beaten the chess of Kasparov. In truth he couldnt show his chess because he was intimudated and psyched out.

Now what Milov is doing against Rybka is something else. Much more honest and scientifical in highest degrees.

What Larry Kaufman is experiencing there with the assistance I would call it of GM Milov that is a series of experiments to experience the true strength of the program Rybka in a lackmus test with a 2700+ human GM. Sort of thing the Swedes had done before they started with their SSDF ranking list. Actually Rybka is being measured in normal games, movepawn handicap till exchange handicap to get some informations.

From what I could see yesterday in the exchange game, the GM has successfully neutralized the strength of Rybka. He could hold together his position and Rybka couldnt out-calculate him. But Rybka had this handicap. So I would believe that Rybka normally is better than the GM.

Now that is perhaps little in your eyes and it seems irrelevent for the strength of a human player. But then this is the moment where GM Milov thankfully spent his time and efforts for this measuring experiment and I have full confidence that he isnt cheated by Larry just like Kasparov was mistreated by Campbell et al. Although I must admit that also Kasparov at the time gambled for show reasons, of course in expectance that he would win again. With the public worldwide it was a swindle where Kasparov wasnt completely innocent, also because he wasnt prepared well enough. But to realise this is difficult if his mother and the always a bit exaggerating Friedel are his advisors. But Kasparov was on his decline anyway and he was moire trusting his charisma than his chess calculations against a machine that could make some calculations with ACDC. That alone is insultive.

So, to sum up, actgually you could well analyse with all others what the actual situation in machine chess is all about. But it's well no longer about this legendary man vs machine challenge because machine have now really won that. Still humans are no sissies if they contribute for scientifical reasons. Thanks to GM Milov. Thanks to Larry Kaufman for his hospitality and scientifical curiosity.
-Popper and Lakatos are good but I'm stuck on Leibowitz

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: GMMilov vs Rybka 3 already begun on playchess.com

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:06 pm

Rolf wrote:
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Rolf wrote:
Damir wrote:Yes, but there is no pawn advantage to GM this time. :D
Dont listen to Wael's distortions. Here in game two the advantage was a whole exchange for the GM. And Rybka managed to draw this.
My point is and has always been the following:
I am against this stupid odd type match in general and I blame the human GM for accepting to play under such conditions,got it Prof. Rolf :!: :?:
If I was a 2700+ GM with enough integrity and self respect,I'll set like a man playing the beast under normal conditions,like Adams did playing Hydra....
I am not saying anything bad about your mighty chess God called Rybka....
Heretic regards,
Dr.D
Why do you need to put down others to then imagine yourself as a God? I never told you anything abot this fascinating view how you would play and die like a man (in Adams style), so why do you need to call me professor? Just to punish me for my opinions? Is that democratic?

In truth you havent yet understood what this traditional man vs machine thing is all about.

Take a look into my critic against the IBM scientists who spoiled it all. Did Kasparov appear in NY in 1997 to fight the machine like a man?? in a typically normal chess match? Nope. No, it was a show event for the masses. With the expected outcome that he, Kasparov, would win. Because of the expected weaknesses of the machine. Now that failed because Kasparrov forgot about his own weaknesses as a man (in special his strong superstition). My main criticism is against the scientists who then claimed that they had beaten the chess of Kasparov. In truth he couldnt show his chess because he was intimudated and psyched out.

Now what Milov is doing against Rybka is something else. Much more honest and scientifical in highest degrees.

What Larry Kaufman is experiencing there with the assistance I would call it of GM Milov that is a series of experiments to experience the true strength of the program Rybka in a lackmus test with a 2700+ human GM. Sort of thing the Swedes had done before they started with their SSDF ranking list. Actually Rybka is being measured in normal games, movepawn handicap till exchange handicap to get some informations.

From what I could see yesterday in the exchange game, the GM has successfully neutralized the strength of Rybka. He could hold together his position and Rybka couldnt out-calculate him. But Rybka had this handicap. So I would believe that Rybka normally is better than the GM.

Now that is perhaps little in your eyes and it seems irrelevent for the strength of a human player. But then this is the moment where GM Milov thankfully spent his time and efforts for this measuring experiment and I have full confidence that he isnt cheated by Larry just like Kasparov was mistreated by Campbell et al. Although I must admit that also Kasparov at the time gambled for show reasons, of course in expectance that he would win again. With the public worldwide it was a swindle where Kasparov wasnt completely innocent, also because he wasnt prepared well enough. But to realise this is difficult if his mother and the always a bit exaggerating Friedel are his advisors. But Kasparov was on his decline anyway and he was moire trusting his charisma than his chess calculations against a machine that could make some calculations with ACDC. That alone is insultive.

So, to sum up, actgually you could well analyse with all others what the actual situation in machine chess is all about. But it's well no longer about this legendary man vs machine challenge because machine have now really won that. Still humans are no sissies if they contribute for scientifical reasons. Thanks to GM Milov. Thanks to Larry Kaufman for his hospitality and scientifical curiosity.
Poor Milov,I've almost cried when I read your statement :cry:
It looks like you forgot the big bucks he asked for just to make a clown out of himself....
Odd match=circus regards,
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

Steve B
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Re: GMMilov vs Rybka 3 already begun on playchess.com

Post by Steve B » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:13 pm

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Poor Milov,I've almost cried when I read your statement :cry:
It looks like you forgot the big bucks he asked for just to make a clown out of himself....
Odd match=circus regards,
Dr.D
i dont know exactly how much Milov is getting paid for this spectacle..
but i wonder ..what is the price a 2700+ GM would accept ..to be offered up as a human sacrifice ..a burnt offering ..if you will.. to the Rybkian god?
does Kaufman mention the prize fund ?

Lamb To The Slaughter Regards
Steve

Terry McCracken
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Re: GMMilov vs Rybka 3 already begun on playchess.com

Post by Terry McCracken » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:33 pm

Steve B wrote:
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Poor Milov,I've almost cried when I read your statement :cry:
It looks like you forgot the big bucks he asked for just to make a clown out of himself....
Odd match=circus regards,
Dr.D
i dont know exactly how much Milov is getting paid for this spectacle..
but i wonder ..what is the price a 2700+ GM would accept ..to be offered up as a human sacrifice ..a burnt offering ..if you will.. to the Rybkian god?
does Kaufman mention the prize fund ?

Lamb To The Slaughter Regards
Steve
The problem is they never get players who know how to play computers.
With one exception but was far past his prime.
The first thing they need to know is how not to play them and it seems that is the crux of the issue.

Only Kasparov could take on computers tactically and with varying results.

For other mortals they need a good understanding where computers haven't any and be able to apply it.

You have to forget about chess as it's usually played, that will end in disgrace unless a Superman appears.

Gone with & Blowing in the Wind and Left Twisting Regards

Terry

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