2008 WCCC - Unbalanced Hardware

[Sean Evans]

Hi, I think for the 2009 WCCC, the rules should be one CPU of your choice and a set amount of RAM. The 2008 WCCC really doesn't mean much when the programs are running on completely different levels of CPU power!

[mhull]

Hi, I think for the 2009 WCCC, the rules should be one CPU of your choice and a set amount of RAM. The 2008 WCCC really doesn't mean much when the programs are running on completely different levels of CPU power!

In the past, there were tests of a top program running at one-tenth the speed of crafty, and still winning. A similar test is being run now in another thread here.

This falsifies the notion that uneven hardware contests are meaningless.

[Harvey Williamson]

Hi, I think for the 2009 WCCC, the rules should be one CPU of your choice and a set amount of RAM. The 2008 WCCC really doesn't mean much when the programs are running on completely different levels of CPU power!

In the past, there were tests of a top program running at one-tenth the speed of crafty, and still winning. A similar test is being run now in another thread here.

This falsifies the notion that uneven hardware contests are meaningless.

I used to believe that = hardware was the way to go, now I am not so sure. However I think an upper limit should be set. Hiarcs played on a Skulltrail and was only the 5th fastest hardware in the tournament. However it is hardware that anyone can buy. So perhaps the upper limit this year should have been an 8 core Skulltrail. Next year the upper limit could be whatever is easily commercially available then.

[Dann Corbit]

Hi, I think for the 2009 WCCC, the rules should be one CPU of your choice and a set amount of RAM. The 2008 WCCC really doesn't mean much when the programs are running on completely different levels of CPU power!

I guess that Hydra and Deep Blue would not be allowed to enter then.

There have been equal hardware contests in the past.

How will you even it out if one program runs on a Mac and one on a PC and one on an IBM mainframe vector processor and one on a Cray supercomputer?

If you want to know how programs perform on equal hardware then look at CCRL and CEGT which determine exactly what you are after and perhaps one thousand times more accurately than a quick contest to determine a world champion.

I see no point whatsoever to equal hardware in a WCCC. I say throw everything at it that you can and let us see the best chess.

[CThinker]

Hi, I think for the 2009 WCCC, the rules should be one CPU of your choice and a set amount of RAM. The 2008 WCCC really doesn't mean much when the programs are running on completely different levels of CPU power!

This discussion pops up every year.

WCCC is "world COMPUTER chess championship". There is no mention of "software" there. You are supposed to bring the best computer contraption you could come-up with. That includes chess chips (Deep Blue), specialized daughter boards (Rebel), FPGAs (Hydra), dedicated chess boards (Novag), PCs, PDAs, etc. It is not about an equal hardware competition.

There is nothing equal about this competition. You bring your best opening book. Maybe even tune it against particular oponents.

It is not about the best program either. Its a combination of software, hardware, books, end-game database, and whatever else that can affect chess play.

We already have tons of same-hardware tournaments (WBEC, CCRL, etc.). There is no need to turn WCCC into that.

[Ovyron]

You bring your best opening book. Maybe even tune it against particular oponents.

I agree. And for what I've seen books can have a bigger impact than hardware. If you (the general 'you') want to see equal matches with 'fair' software and books watch the rating lists, they have many more games, too.

[glorfindel]

... I think an upper limit should be set. Hiarcs played on a Skulltrail and was only the 5th fastest hardware in the tournament. However it is hardware that anyone can buy. So perhaps the upper limit this year should have been an 8 core Skulltrail. Next year the upper limit could be whatever is easily commercially available then.

The term "easily commercially available" is subject to different interpretations by different people because hardware that someone can afford could be too expensive for someone else.

Perhaps the upper limit every year should be the best hardware that the Hiarcs team can manage to bring to the tournament.

[Steve B]

I see no point whatsoever to equal hardware in a WCCC. I say throw everything at it that you can and let us see the best chess.

for the WCCC agreed
however i think it would be interesting to see at least one tournament per year with equal hardware with as many engines that can run on the same
no need to call it a championship
IMHO this is far more interesting than a cold engine tournament running in someone's basement under the cover of darkness
live games on the Internet with operators (prone to human error)
actually i am still amazed that there are NO tournaments like this at all except for the Fischer 960
they see to be able to manage a similar hardware tournament for that one and none objects to the fact that several engines cannot join in

Separate but Equal Regards
Steve

[pijl]

however i think it would be interesting to see at least one tournament per year with equal hardware with as many engines that can run on the same
no need to call it a championship
IMHO this is far more interesting than a cold engine tournament running in someone's basement under the cover of darkness
live games on the Internet with operators (prone to human error)

The games of Chesswar and Openwar are broadcasted using TLCV (see the chesswar site for details). There's a (sometimes) lively chat during the games. And there are more.

actually i am still amazed that there are NO tournaments like this at all except for the Fischer 960
they see to be able to manage a similar hardware tournament for that one and none objects to the fact that several engines cannot join in

Only four programs are able to compete on equal hardware during this tournament. Last time there was a qualifying stage where everyone could use anything they could get their hands on.
Richard.

[hgm]

I fail to see what "Human error" would add to a computer competition...

Fortunately there are several equal-hardware tournaments each year, which can be followed live over the internet. (Untained by Human errors! )

Even the "Battle-of-the-Goths" General 10x8 Championship could be cunted as such!