On Robots

[sje]

Here's my prediction concerning the newly announced Novag 2Robot dedicated unit:

Like the Excalibur robotic arm unit, it will never see the marketplace.

Why?

1) The state of the art is not advanced enough to mass produce an inexpensive robotic arm capable of manipulating chess pieces.

2) Dealers still remember the high defect and return rate on earlier robotic arm machines.

3) Having a 4 KB program that plays at (maybe) 1200 elo with a minuscule book is not going to draw the interest of most players.

4) The lack of a serial interface removes the model from consideration by many experimenters.

Now, if someone could produce a robotic arm chess machine that was mechanically reliable and had a serial interface, then I'd consider buying one if it were under US$500. I'm not expecting this any time soon.

[Steve B]

Here's my prediction concerning the newly announced Novag 2Robot dedicated unit:

Like the Excalibur robotic arm unit, it will never see the marketplace.

Why?

1) The state of the art is not advanced enough to mass produce an inexpensive robotic arm capable of manipulating chess pieces.

2) Dealers still remember the high defect and return rate on earlier robotic arm machines.

3) Having a 4 KB program that plays at (maybe) 1200 elo with a minuscule book is not going to draw the interest of most players.

4) The lack of a serial interface removes the model from consideration by many experimenters.

Now, if someone could produce a robotic arm chess machine that was mechanically reliable and had a serial interface, then I'd consider buying one if it were under US$500. I'm not expecting this any time soon.

Sir Byran Whitby has been beta testing the 2robot for several months now
i think he has 2-3 of these babies in his Garden Shed Workshop
as far as i know they appear reliable and defect free.. so far
but i dont have any recent info from him on this

the one very appealing aspect of the 2robot is the price
ICD shows it down to $250..the price for a decent meal for two in a good resturant in NYC

Steve

[sje]

the one very appealing aspect of the 2robot is the price
ICD shows it down to $250..the price for a decent meal for two in a good resturant in NYC

Yes, but the 2Robot was supposed to be delivered last month. Perhaps there are technical reasons for the delay.

With a 4 KB program and a 3/4 KB RAM, is anyone expecting a playing strength above 1200 elo? I'm sure collectors will purchase one (or more), but I doubt that there's enough interest to make the unit a commercial success.

But I could be wrong. After all, some under-the-board auto-mover units have had some selling success in spite of being noisy and slow.

[Steve B]

the 2Robot was supposed to be equipped with the Star Beryl program which Novag marketed at 1750 USCF so this would tip the scales at perhaps 1500-1600 ish Elo
its true there are delays and perhaps it is problems with the arm
i can only say that if they are ever released for sale i will buy one..make that two..because i think they planned on releasing them in two different color schemes

its a pity that Excalibur scrapped its plans for their robot arm computer
that was supposed to go for around $500 and have a very large speaking vocabulary
sadly the arm mechanism which was manufactured in Hong Kong(i believe) proved too unreliable to sell
even there though.. the program was going to be the Deluxe Talking chess program ..another honker at 1500 Elo

i guess the manufacturers just see these Robots as appealing to a a more general audience rather then computer chess enthusiasts
Steve

[Steve B]

No thread about chess playing robots would be complete without at least a mention of the Excalibur Mirage
outfitted with Ron Nelsons(the FATHER of Commericial Chess Programs) "Grandmaster" program it clocked in at 1800 ELO
not equipped with an arm ..it none the less had an alarmingly high defect rate..even more so then other electromagnetic self movers

released in 1997 they sold for $300 as new and there was a time when these computers would sell for $500 or better on Ebay but today they cant even give them way for $190

http://cgi.ebay.com/EXCALIBUR-MIRAGE-RO ... 0279507758

of course this is for the very common "Black" Mirage
the value of the Legendary "Marble "Mirage is still quite high

Mirage Market Analysis Regards
Steve

[sje]

Concerning strength:

The 16 bit, 60 KB ROM, 3 KB RAM H8/300 CPU used in the Citrine costs only about US$10 (quantity one) and it can provide 2000 elo performance. Note that the cost is only a measly four percent of the Citrine's retail price. Cutting back on cost by having a rather weaker CPU is not going to save much more than US$5 per unit. So, it's hard to see why some offerings in the US$100+ range, robotic or not, have such wimpy CPUs and a much lower performance.

[Steve B]

So, it's hard to see why some offerings in the US$100+ range, robotic or not, have such wimpy CPUs and a much lower performance.

Totally Agreed Regards
Steve

[mephisto]

STEVEB/STEVE
I have been testing one of them since just before last Christmas. It was hand made by the Novag engineers and the calibration went a little wrong after a few months. Novag then sent me a new modyfied version. Better calibration and some cosmetic changes to the arm and board, this one still works 100% ok today.
I was asked if I would test a newer version with new self-calibration code so that the arm will automatically adjust . One of the units Novag are testing has been running for more than 800 hours non-stop and is still picking up the pieces accurately. Unfortunately it never arrived.
2Robot is being pitched as a toy for children who might like to learn how to play chess or a child who already knows how to play but has no one to play against.
It does contain a weak program but I still love to play against it with queen odds. Also, everyone that I show it to, is amazed and loves it.
I was in contact with Eric Hallsworth last week and he told me that his Chrismas stock from Novag had arrived without the 2Robot order that has been promised in about two weeks.
So there is still a slight delay but I don't know why.
You might be interested in the following link from my web site. Sorry about the quality of the photos in advance.
http://robotvinnik.synthasite.com/
Robotvinnik regards
BRYW

[mclane]

the problem is IMO that the dedicated chess computer companies
(if they still exist) sell TOY computers.

if they would sell the 2robot with the diamond-program or with the star-diamond program, many of us would buy those machines.

but the companies are not interested in producing them.

so ... no deal.

[Steve B]

Thanks for the 2Robot update Sir Bryan

amazing to see a 2Robot "Deluxe" already being made in the Garden Shed ..while us peons dont even have a regular one yet

Regards From the Knuckle Dragging Unwashed Masses
Steve