About TC tolerance in ChessGUI

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Matthias Gemuh
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About TC tolerance in ChessGUI

Post by Matthias Gemuh » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:54 pm

ChessGUI awards a loss on time even if an engine lacks only 1 millisec to finish a session. Use only ChessGUI 0.133 to eventually see what I mean.

I hear that Arena is not so strict.
I don't know how strict Winboard or other GUIs are.

I think the ChessGUI approach is fine.
Or should a GUI tolerate a 1000 millisec failure to meet the TC ?

Matthias.
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de

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Guenther
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Re: About TC tolerance in ChessGUI

Post by Guenther » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:29 pm

Matthias Gemuh wrote:ChessGUI awards a loss on time even if an engine lacks only 1 millisec to finish a session. Use only ChessGUI 0.133 to eventually see what I mean.

I hear that Arena is not so strict.
I don't know how strict Winboard or other GUIs are.

I think the ChessGUI approach is fine.
Or should a GUI tolerate a 1000 millisec failure to meet the TC ?

Matthias.
That's fine with me and WB does the same. A GUI should never allow overstepping the time, no matter how small the margin.
I have seen logs when Arena even allowed engines to start with negative time for the next move.
There are a few programs(e.g. Monarch UCI) which simply overstep their time by some centi sec(not even milli sec)
and they won't be punished by Arena and e.g. the Lokasoft UCI adapter for ChessTiger, which
sometimes uses 10-70 ms more than allowed, but at least it doesn't happen too frequentely with the latest ChessTiger
after some time management fix from Christophe.

Guenther

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: About TC tolerance in ChessGUI

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:45 pm

Matthias Gemuh wrote:ChessGUI awards a loss on time even if an engine lacks only 1 millisec to finish a session. Use only ChessGUI 0.133 to eventually see what I mean.

I hear that Arena is not so strict.
I don't know how strict Winboard or other GUIs are.

I think the ChessGUI approach is fine.
Or should a GUI tolerate a 1000 millisec failure to meet the TC ?

Matthias.
Yes,just like the Arena GUI,that will save a lot of trouble....
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

F. Bluemers
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Re: About TC tolerance in ChessGUI

Post by F. Bluemers » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:56 pm

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:ChessGUI awards a loss on time even if an engine lacks only 1 millisec to finish a session. Use only ChessGUI 0.133 to eventually see what I mean.

I hear that Arena is not so strict.
I don't know how strict Winboard or other GUIs are.

I think the ChessGUI approach is fine.
Or should a GUI tolerate a 1000 millisec failure to meet the TC ?

Matthias.
Yes,just like the Arena GUI,that will save a lot of trouble....
Doc,This is not "saving trouble" (What trouble anyway?) but ... cheating... :!:
:lol:
Best
Fonzy

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Location: Amman,Jordan

Re: About TC tolerance in ChessGUI

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:02 pm

F. Bluemers wrote:
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:ChessGUI awards a loss on time even if an engine lacks only 1 millisec to finish a session. Use only ChessGUI 0.133 to eventually see what I mean.

I hear that Arena is not so strict.
I don't know how strict Winboard or other GUIs are.

I think the ChessGUI approach is fine.
Or should a GUI tolerate a 1000 millisec failure to meet the TC ?

Matthias.
Yes,just like the Arena GUI,that will save a lot of trouble....
Doc,This is not "saving trouble" (What trouble anyway?) but ... cheating... :!:
:lol:
Best
Fonzy
I mean to have less games lost on time in our tournaments....come on,it's only a few millseconds after all :lol:
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

F. Bluemers
Posts: 860
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:21 pm
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Re: About TC tolerance in ChessGUI

Post by F. Bluemers » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:08 pm

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
F. Bluemers wrote:
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:ChessGUI awards a loss on time even if an engine lacks only 1 millisec to finish a session. Use only ChessGUI 0.133 to eventually see what I mean.

I hear that Arena is not so strict.
I don't know how strict Winboard or other GUIs are.

I think the ChessGUI approach is fine.
Or should a GUI tolerate a 1000 millisec failure to meet the TC ?

Matthias.
Yes,just like the Arena GUI,that will save a lot of trouble....
Doc,This is not "saving trouble" (What trouble anyway?) but ... cheating... :!:
:lol:
Best
Fonzy
I mean to have less games lost on time in our tournaments....come on,it's only a few millseconds after all :lol:
Don't reward the lazy programmers ,give them hell :lol:

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Matthias Gemuh
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Re: About TC tolerance in ChessGUI

Post by Matthias Gemuh » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:08 pm

Guenther wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:ChessGUI awards a loss on time even if an engine lacks only 1 millisec to finish a session. Use only ChessGUI 0.133 to eventually see what I mean.

I hear that Arena is not so strict.
I don't know how strict Winboard or other GUIs are.

I think the ChessGUI approach is fine.
Or should a GUI tolerate a 1000 millisec failure to meet the TC ?

Matthias.
That's fine with me and WB does the same. A GUI should never allow overstepping the time, no matter how small the margin.
I have seen logs when Arena even allowed engines to start with negative time for the next move.
There are a few programs(e.g. Monarch UCI) which simply overstep their time by some centi sec(not even milli sec)
and they won't be punished by Arena and e.g. the Lokasoft UCI adapter for ChessTiger, which
sometimes uses 10-70 ms more than allowed, but at least it doesn't happen too frequentely with the latest ChessTiger
after some time management fix from Christophe.

Guenther

I am of your opinion.
I saw an engine overstep by 200ms, playing at "40moves/60s repeated".
I will however let the user set this margin in next ChessGUI.

Best,
Matthias.
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de

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Matthias Gemuh
Posts: 3238
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:10 am
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Re: About TC tolerance in ChessGUI

Post by Matthias Gemuh » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:12 pm

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:ChessGUI awards a loss on time even if an engine lacks only 1 millisec to finish a session. Use only ChessGUI 0.133 to eventually see what I mean.

I hear that Arena is not so strict.
I don't know how strict Winboard or other GUIs are.

I think the ChessGUI approach is fine.
Or should a GUI tolerate a 1000 millisec failure to meet the TC ?

Matthias.
Yes,just like the Arena GUI,that will save a lot of trouble....

I will let the user set this margin in next ChessGUI.

Best,
Matthias.
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de

F. Bluemers
Posts: 860
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:21 pm
Location: Nederland
Contact:

Re: About TC tolerance in ChessGUI

Post by F. Bluemers » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:19 pm

Matthias Gemuh wrote:
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:ChessGUI awards a loss on time even if an engine lacks only 1 millisec to finish a session. Use only ChessGUI 0.133 to eventually see what I mean.

I hear that Arena is not so strict.
I don't know how strict Winboard or other GUIs are.

I think the ChessGUI approach is fine.
Or should a GUI tolerate a 1000 millisec failure to meet the TC ?

Matthias.
Yes,just like the Arena GUI,that will save a lot of trouble....

I will let the user set this margin in next ChessGUI.

Best,
Matthias.
Its better if broken engines get fixed
Margins will make things worse

Best
Fonzy

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pedrox
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Re: About TC tolerance in ChessGUI

Post by pedrox » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:57 pm

Matthias Gemuh wrote:
Guenther wrote:
Matthias Gemuh wrote:ChessGUI awards a loss on time even if an engine lacks only 1 millisec to finish a session. Use only ChessGUI 0.133 to eventually see what I mean.

I hear that Arena is not so strict.
I don't know how strict Winboard or other GUIs are.

I think the ChessGUI approach is fine.
Or should a GUI tolerate a 1000 millisec failure to meet the TC ?

Matthias.
That's fine with me and WB does the same. A GUI should never allow overstepping the time, no matter how small the margin.
I have seen logs when Arena even allowed engines to start with negative time for the next move.
There are a few programs(e.g. Monarch UCI) which simply overstep their time by some centi sec(not even milli sec)
and they won't be punished by Arena and e.g. the Lokasoft UCI adapter for ChessTiger, which
sometimes uses 10-70 ms more than allowed, but at least it doesn't happen too frequentely with the latest ChessTiger
after some time management fix from Christophe.

Guenther

I am of your opinion.
I saw an engine overstep by 200ms, playing at "40moves/60s repeated".
I will however let the user set this margin in next ChessGUI.

Best,
Matthias.
Maybe, this happened to me.

I developed the program in Arena, I've played hundreds of games even in bullet as 1+1 or 40/1 and I have not had any loss in time.

If someone tells you that he had problems, the first thing I think is the user is doing something wrong (problems with your computer...), rather it is mime problem.

But I see now that the engine has problems of lost in time in chessGUI (and perhaps in winboard) for games bullet.

I would have preferred that Arena not to be tolerant with time, because at the time to develop the engine I could have tuned.

The next version will be tested with chessgui or winboard.

Pedro

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