Any More Strategical Ideas for a Test Suite?

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: hgm, Dann Corbit, Harvey Williamson

Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the [d] tag before the upgrade.
Allard Siemelink
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:30 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Any More Strategical Ideas for a Test Suite?

Post by Allard Siemelink » Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:36 am

in case you're interested, I can send you a set with the n most common opening positions and most frequently played moves.
Not sure if it qualifies as a 'development' testsuite but you could try...

swami
Posts: 6546
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:21 am

Re: Any More Strategical Ideas for a Test Suite?

Post by swami » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:48 am

Howard E wrote:Is it possible to create a suite that takes the 20 hardest positions from each of the already released ones? One would need a databse of which positions were not solved by some of the better programs. Do you have such records?
Very Good idea. I applaud you for coming up with such a creativity.

It's certainly possible, but I'd like to finish up some more test suites before I decide to find positions from older ones.

User avatar
Graham Banks
Posts: 35090
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:52 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Any More Strategical Ideas for a Test Suite?

Post by Graham Banks » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:13 am

Have you created a suite that focuses on pawns? Examples - pawn sacrifices, creation of a winning passed pawn.
Or sacrificing a minor piece for two or three pawns?
gbanksnz at gmail.com

swami
Posts: 6546
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:21 am

Re: Any More Strategical Ideas for a Test Suite?

Post by swami » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:37 am

Graham Banks wrote:Have you created a suite that focuses on pawns? Examples - pawn sacrifices, creation of a winning passed pawn.
Or sacrificing a minor piece for two or three pawns?
Hi Graham, We have only created a suite on pawn undermining. I may add "Sacrificing a minor piece for pawns" to the list but that could fall under the "Positional Sacrifice" theme. Creation of winning passed pawns is similar to pawn race. This was suggested by Jesper Nielson while ago. Pawn Sacrifice was already added to the list.

Rafael Vasquez

Re: Any More Strategical Ideas for a Test Suite?

Post by Rafael Vasquez » Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:55 pm

Piece Redundancy

See this article by Larry Kaufman:

http://home.comcast.net/~danheisman/Art ... alance.htm

Is very interesting

swami
Posts: 6546
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:21 am

Re: Any More Strategical Ideas for a Test Suite?

Post by swami » Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:00 am

Some more ideas:
  • Advancement of Queen Side Pawns or a/b/c pawns:
    Just like the advancement of f/g/h pawns but this is on the opposite wing.

    Fianchettoing the Bishop
    Keeps up the long diagonal and acts as a strong king's defense.

    Exchange of the Fianchetto Bishop
    Trying to find ways to exchange up the opponent's Fianchetto Bishop

    Knights to the 4th/5th Rank
    Advancing the knight to the 5th rank(Ng5, Nb5) pressures the pieces in opponent's camp. This is a threatening move that assists in king side attack, or intends to reposition itself to e4/d4 center where it will have access to many squares, or makes way for f-pawn advance.

Taner Altinsoy
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:56 pm
Location: Istanbul

Re: Any More Strategical Ideas for a Test Suite?

Post by Taner Altinsoy » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:40 am

Synergy of the pieces like keeping the bishop pair. Also queen and knight is stronger than queen and bishop especially in attack. Usually rook is considered stronger than two minor pieces if the pawns are scattered on both sides of the board.

Also an idea might be sacrificing to get perpetual check though this might might be more tactical.

Taner

User avatar
beachknight
Posts: 3533
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:33 pm
Location: Antalya, Turkey
Contact:

Re: Any More Strategical Ideas for a Test Suite?

Post by beachknight » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:42 am

swami wrote:Some more ideas:
  • Advancement of Queen Side Pawns or a/b/c pawns:
    Just like the advancement of f/g/h pawns but this is on the opposite wing.

    Fianchettoing the Bishop
    Keeps up the long diagonal and acts as a strong king's defense.

    Exchange of the Fianchetto Bishop
    Trying to find ways to exchange up the opponent's Fianchetto Bishop

    Knights to the 4th/5th Rank
    Advancing the knight to the 5th rank(Ng5, Nb5) pressures the pieces in opponent's camp. This is a threatening move that assists in king side attack, or intends to reposition itself to e4/d4 center where it will have access to many squares, or makes way for f-pawn advance.
I am making notes and following your development closely, Swami. :)

Few things coming to my mind:

If ninth suite is to be called as

Advancement of Queen Side Pawns or a/b/c pawns

then you might rename the eigth one as:

Advancement of King Side Pawns or f/g/h pawns

Advancement of (Small) Center Pawns or d/e pawns could be covered by
another test suite, esp. for midgame phase in some irregular openings.

Best,
hi, merhaba, hallo HT

playjunior
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:53 pm

Re: Any More Strategical Ideas for a Test Suite?

Post by playjunior » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:12 am

Irrelevant pawns in endgames.

Sometimes in endgames the engines will grab a pawn in the flank which the opponent cannot regain immediately, but can use the tempo and the fact that one piece is missing to organize an effective defense/blockade.


This happens a lot when, say, white has a passed isolated d-pawn and needs to push it to crumple black. Grabbing a pawn on, say, h6 leads to blockade of the d-pawn and black eventually takes it down or just stays. This kind of positions occur from time to time and engines fail every time I tested.

In recent London tournament there was Kramnik's game against Li Chao (?) where the Russian commentator said Kramnik will not even consider taking the pawn.

Maharadja
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:22 pm

Re: Any More Strategical Ideas for a Test Suite?

Post by Maharadja » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:34 pm

Hi,

What is a Strategical Test Suite without a test set of Karpovian moves? :D
You could think of retreat moves and small moves.

Post Reply