New idea for a fair Human-Machine battle without handycap

[Laszlo Gaspar]

Dear chess fellows,

I have an idea which I think should be tried out before we can state with certanity that machines are better than humans.

As far as I know, still all Human-Machine battle was organized so far the same way as a human-human compatition. We expect the GM to calculate all variations in his mind and make the chosen move on the board.
Why is that when a chess engine as its natural operation can make a move and take it back on a board which is real for itself and let it evaluate the upcoming positions...?

My proposal is to let the human use a special computer tool (a GUI or database program or whatever) to be able to analyze his decisions before making the real move on the board.
Certainly no chess engines can be used for help only databases.

This sounds like correspondence play but with tournament time control and without engine help.

I can imagine that special software should be developed for this purpose based on GMs' requirements.

What is your opinion?

[Marek Soszynski]

I remember once in a school match seeing my opponent fiddling with something under the table when it was his turn to move. When I challenged him, he produced a pocket set that he'd been analysing on, and said, "Here, you can use it too, and it's not touch move on this set!".

[Matthias Gemuh]

Great idea !
The software should not reject illegal moves.

.

[Bo Persson]

Dear chess fellows,

I have an idea which I think should be tried out before we can state with certanity that machines are better than humans.

As far as I know, still all Human-Machine battle was organized so far the same way as a human-human compatition. We expect the GM to calculate all variations in his mind and make the chosen move on the board.
Why is that when a chess engine as its natural operation can make a move and take it back on a board which is real for itself and let it evaluate the upcoming positions...?

What do you mean? The computer has no real board, it is only simulating one in software.

To be really fair, the computer should also be allowed to use a real human brain!

[Laszlo Gaspar]

Hi Bo,

I meant that the program can make and retract a move in its own "world", in the computer memory and the human should be allowed to do this.
To let it be done on a real board is not sufficient because it is very time consuming and the player can also be confused after long sequences, so not big help.

A special tool can memorize her/him the critical branches so it can be used for fast analysis.

Matthias,

Are you joking or what?:-)

[Leto]

To some Grandmasters the board they conjure up in their minds can be just as real as the board chess engines conjure up during their calculations.

[Matthias Gemuh]

Matthias,

Are you joking or what?:-)

No joke !!
Many chess players (even GMs) sometimes play illegal moves in their thoughts.
Software should not eliminate such blunders automatically.

Matthias.

[Laszlo Gaspar]

To some Grandmasters the board they conjure up in their minds can be just as real as the board chess engines conjure up during their calculations.

I am very much aware of this!

On the other hand it requires a lot of energy/concentration from them and I can imagine that such help would make them stronger.


Matthias,

Why is it important to let the player commit such a calculation mistake? Or do you think it is just too much help to detect such cases for the player? Well, this is what should be decided, what kind of help to give and what not...

[Uri Blass]

Dear chess fellows,

I have an idea which I think should be tried out before we can state with certanity that machines are better than humans.

As far as I know, still all Human-Machine battle was organized so far the same way as a human-human compatition. We expect the GM to calculate all variations in his mind and make the chosen move on the board.
Why is that when a chess engine as its natural operation can make a move and take it back on a board which is real for itself and let it evaluate the upcoming positions...?

My proposal is to let the human use a special computer tool (a GUI or database program or whatever) to be able to analyze his decisions before making the real move on the board.
Certainly no chess engines can be used for help only databases.

This sounds like correspondence play but with tournament time control and without engine help.

I can imagine that special software should be developed for this purpose based on GMs' requirements.

What is your opinion?

My opinion is that humans have no chance with your idea.
What you suggest is not going to make top grandmasters even 100 elo stronger and in the best case they may get level of 2900 elo when rybka is clearly stronger than 3000

Uri

[Laskos]

What databases? GM's don't have problems with comps in openings, they are actually better there. And there are no middlegame databases, and hard to build in foreseeable future. That's the stage of the game where GM's are much weaker. So, a database is of small importance (I think Kramnik played Fritz with an opening database). You can offer a GM both opening and endgame databases with minimal effect.

Kai