Dedicated test....Nd4-f5

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rightrook
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Dedicated test....Nd4-f5

Post by rightrook » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:15 pm

[D]r1bq1r2/1p2Npkp/3p2p1/p7/3NP1nQ/1B2b3/PPP3PP/R4R1K w - - 0 1

Fidelity Mach 3.......7 ply ....37 minutes

TurboStar 432...about 30 minutes.

Polgar..........55 minutes.

Mondial......1 hour, and 21 min.

regards

Robert

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Eelco de Groot
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Location: Groningen

Re: Dedicated test....Nd4-f5

Post by Eelco de Groot » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:50 pm

I wish I could set the position up with the Turing and Konrad Zuse Plankalkül simulator from 1942, - The first chesscomputers! - to compare the output with the more modern Mephisto Polgar and Fidelity Mach III. But the Java applet only calculates one ply deep unfortunately so it is no real test :) A five ply version would be a lot stronger I think and be harder for me to beat :) I like playing against it although it often gives queens away as soon as possible, like playing with Black 1... e6, 2... Qg5, allowing 3. Bc1xg5. But be careful with pawn pushes you think are immediately winning on the back rank. Can you imagine why :) ?

At first Ancalagon thinks 1.c3 is very good, strangely enough, it does cover the Knight on d4 but I would expect it to extend the check 1.c3 Nf2+ as well in earlier plies even before iteration five, to push the score for 1.c3 down.

[D]r1bq1r2/1p2Npkp/3p2p1/p7/3NP1nQ/1B2b3/PPP3PP/R4R1K w - -

Engine: Ancalagon 1.3 Weak Squares 180 Board Control middlegame 50 endgame 50 (256 MB)
by Romstad, Costalba, Kiiski, de Groot

2.00 0:00 +1.50 1.Rad1 Bf2 (9.829) 36

2.00 0:00 +5.50 1.c3 g5 2.Nef5+ Bxf5 3.Nxf5+ Kh8
4.Qxg4 (24.055) 80

3.00 0:00 +5.50 1.c3 g5 2.Nef5+ Bxf5 3.Nxf5+ Kh8
4.Qxg4 (185.626) 304

4.00 0:00 +5.50 1.c3 g5 2.Nef5+ Bxf5 3.Nxf5+ Kh8
4.Qxg4 (266.216) 362

5.00 0:00 +1.25 1.c3 Nf2+ (380.990) 420

5.12 0:02 +1.82 1.Ndf5+ Bxf5 2.exf5 Nf6 3.fxg6 fxg6
4.Nxg6 hxg6 5.Rae1 (1.267.221) 488

6.01 0:03 +1.82 1.Ndf5+ Bxf5 2.exf5 Nf6 3.fxg6 fxg6
4.Nxg6 hxg6 5.Rae1 (1.771.884) 513

7.01 0:09 +1.82 1.Ndf5+ Bxf5 2.exf5 Nf6 3.fxg6 fxg6
4.Nxg6 hxg6 5.Rae1 (5.086.388) 561

8.01 0:20 +1.62 1.Ndf5+ gxf5 (12.377.765) 608

9.01 0:51 +1.47 1.Ndf5+ Bxf5 2.exf5 Nf6 3.Nd5 Nxd5
4.Qh3 Kh8 5.fxg6 fxg6 6.Bxd5 Qe7
7.Rae1 Rxf1+ 8.Rxf1 (33.045.781) 644

10.01 1:25 +1.47 1.Ndf5+ Bxf5 2.exf5 Nf6 3.Nd5 Nxd5
4.Qh3 Kh8 5.fxg6 fxg6 6.Bxd5 Qe7
7.Rae1 Rxf1+ 8.Rxf1 (57.119.454) 670

11.01 2:47 +1.66 1.Ndf5+ (113.183.168) 676

12.01 3:17 +1.68 1.Ndf5+ Bxf5 2.exf5 Nf6 3.Nd5 Nxd5
4.Qh3 Kh8 5.Bxd5 Qg5 6.Bxb7 Rab8
7.Be4 Qh6 8.Qxh6 Bxh6 (131.020.330) 663


best move: Nd4-f5 time: 7:05.797 min n/s: 636.219 nodes: 270.900.419

Regards, Eelco
Last edited by Eelco de Groot on Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

rightrook
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Re: Dedicated test....Nd4-f5

Post by rightrook » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:03 pm

Ok..thanks.....7 minutes is very good.

My portable Mephisto Travel Expert now shows....c2-c3....after about 36 minutes....not so good.... :roll:

regards

Robert

yanquis1972
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Re: Dedicated test....Nd4-f5

Post by yanquis1972 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:19 pm

eelco was posting analysis of his computer engine i think (which found it in 2 seconds) :D

i guess one of those tasc r40s or whatever would find this very quickly

Steve B
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Re: Dedicated test....Nd4-f5

Post by Steve B » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:25 pm

yanquis1972 wrote:eelco was posting analysis of his computer engine i think (which found it in 2 seconds) :D

i guess one of those tasc r40s or whatever would find this very quickly

Tasc R40 you say??
:shock:
thats a VERY rare chess computer
much more common is the R30

Stunned Regards
Steve

F. Bluemers
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Re: Dedicated test....Nd4-f5

Post by F. Bluemers » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:56 pm

Steve B wrote:
yanquis1972 wrote:eelco was posting analysis of his computer engine i think (which found it in 2 seconds) :D

i guess one of those tasc r40s or whatever would find this very quickly

Tasc R40 you say??
:shock:
thats a VERY rare chess computer
much more common is the R30

Stunned Regards
Steve
They are only rare because fernando bought every R40 he could lay his hands on.
Rich writers are pulling our strings regards
Fonzy

Steve B
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Re: Dedicated test....Nd4-f5

Post by Steve B » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:19 pm

F. Bluemers wrote:
Steve B wrote:
yanquis1972 wrote:eelco was posting analysis of his computer engine i think (which found it in 2 seconds) :D

i guess one of those tasc r40s or whatever would find this very quickly

Tasc R40 you say??
:shock:
thats a VERY rare chess computer
much more common is the R30

Stunned Regards
Steve
They are only rare because fernando bought every R40 he could lay his hands on.
Rich writers are pulling our strings regards
Fonzy
EXACTLY Regards
Steve
:P

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Eelco de Groot
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Re: Dedicated test....Nd4-f5

Post by Eelco de Groot » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:21 pm

rightrook wrote:Ok..thanks.....7 minutes is very good.

My portable Mephisto Travel Expert now shows....c2-c3....after about 36 minutes....not so good.... :roll:

regards

Robert
Actually I am not so sure this is won for White Robert. So maybe it was not such a good analysis, if Black answers by retracting the Knight after taking on d5 the eval stays at about + 1 but does not go much higher. So maybe the Mephisto Travel Master armed with probably just a Hitachi H8 chip, no memory for hash and powered by a few cheap penlight batteries, actually has it right that 1.c3 is just as good and the Travelmaster outcalculates all the MultiMegahertz upstarts of today...

After

[FEN "r1bq1r2/1p2Npkp/3p2p1/p7/3NP1nQ/1B2b3/PPP3PP/R4R1K w - -"]

1. Ndf5+ Bxf5 2. exf5 Nf6 3. Nd5 *

[D]r2q1r2/1p3pkp/3p1np1/p2N1P2/7Q/1B2b3/PPP3PP/R4R1K b - -

Engine: Ancalagon 1.3 WS180BC5050 Build 209 (Athlon 2009 MHz, 256 MB)
by Romstad, Costalba, Kiiski, de Groot

2.00 0:00 -1.39 3...Nxd5 4.Qh3 Qg5 5.Bxd5 Kh8 6.fxg6 (7.747) 516

3.00 0:00 -1.00 3...Nxd5 4.Qe4 Kh6 5.Bxd5 (31.083) 661

4.00 0:00 -1.41 3...Nxd5 4.Qh3 Kh8 5.Bxd5 Qg5 6.Rae1 Rae8
7.fxg6 fxg6 (111.145) 712

5.00 0:00 -1.41 3...Nxd5 4.Qh3 Qg5 5.Bxd5 Kh8 6.Rae1 Rae8
7.fxg6 fxg6 (176.957) 811

6.00 0:00 -1.82 3...Nxd5 4.Qh3 (609.007) 696

7.01 0:01 -1.72 3...Nxd5 4.Qh3 Kh8 5.Bxd5 Qg5 6.Bxb7 Rae8
7.Rad1 Bc5 8.Qc3+ f6 9.fxg6 hxg6
10.Qxa5 (1.057.108) 743

8.01 0:08 -1.17 3...Nxd5 4.Qh3 Nf6 5.Qxe3 a4 6.Bc4 d5
7.Bb5 Kg8 8.Qa3 Qa5 9.fxg6 fxg6 (5.216.721) 609

9.01 0:24 -0.98 3...Nxd5 4.Qh3 Nf6 5.Qxe3 a4 6.Bc4 d5
7.Bb5 a3 8.bxa3 Kg8 9.fxg6 fxg6 (14.673.288) 609

10.01 0:41 -1.05 3...Nxd5 4.Qh3 Nf6 5.Qxe3 a4 6.Bc4 d5
7.fxg6 dxc4 8.gxh7 Nxh7 9.Rad1 Qh4 (26.679.950) 635

11.01 1:19 -1.17 3...Nxd5 4.Qh3 Nf6 5.Qxe3 a4 6.Bc4 d5
7.Bd3 Kh8 8.fxg6 fxg6 9.Qe6 a3 (51.117.137) 646

12.01 6:44 -1.11 3...Nxd5 4.Qh3 Nf6 5.Qxe3 a4 6.Bc4 d5
7.Bd3 Kh8 8.a3 Re8 9.Qh6 Ng8 10.Qf4 Qb6
11.fxg6 fxg6 (234.358.455) 579

13.01 16:53 -1.03 3...Nxd5 4.Qh3 Nf6 5.Qxe3 a4 6.Bc4 d5
7.Bd3 Kh8 8.Qh6 Ng4 9.Qh3 Ne5
10.Rae1 Qc7 11.fxg6 fxg6 (582.884.925) 575

14.01 172:53 -1.23 3...Nxd5 4.Qh3 Qg5 5.Bxd5 Rae8
6.Rad1 Bc5 7.f6+ Kg8 8.Qd7 Re5
9.Qxb7 Rf5 10.c3 Qxf6 11.Bc4 Rxf1+
12.Rxf1 Bf2 13.Bd5 (5.767.289.634) 555

I would not think this is more than +/= based on this line. Too deep even for Mephisto Travel Mate to find a win here!

Regards, Eelco
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan

yanquis1972
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Re: Dedicated test....Nd4-f5

Post by yanquis1972 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:49 pm

rybka doesnt see the move as winning so much as not losing:

New game
r1bq1r2/1p2Npkp/3p2p1/p7/3NP1nQ/1B2b3/PPP3PP/R4R1K w - - 0 1

Analysis by Rybka 3:

1. = (0.20): 1.Ndf5+ Bxf5 2.exf5[] Nf6[] 3.Nd5 Nxd5 4.Qxd8 Raxd8 5.Bxd5 Rde8 6.f6+ Kg8 7.c3 Bg5 8.Rf2 Be3 9.Rc2 Bg5 10.Bxb7 Bxf6 11.Rd2
2. -/+ (-1.04): 1.c3 Nf2+ 2.Rxf2 Bxf2 3.Qxf2 Qxe7 4.Rf1 Be6 5.Qg3 Rad8 6.Nf5+ Bxf5 7.exf5 Qe2 8.Kg1 Qxb2 9.Qe3 d5 10.fxg6 hxg6 11.Qd4+ Kh7 12.Bxd5 Rd6 13.Rf3

(D, 05.08.2009)

rightrook
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Re: Dedicated test....Nd4-f5

Post by rightrook » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:46 pm

>>>Actually I am not so sure this is won for White Robert. So maybe it was not such a good analysis<<<

Maybe so....guess that is why some Novag machines take 1 or 2 hours to find it.... :o

Thanks for all the good replies!

Robert

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