CCRL 40/40 - A most curious game

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Norm Pollock
Posts: 1018
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:15 pm
Location: Long Island, NY, USA
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Re: CCRL 40/40 - A most curious game

Post by Norm Pollock » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:41 pm

Mike S. wrote: I guess we don't expect sensations within moves no. 1...3 anyway. 500+ years of master chess practice and analysis should guarantee that, at least...
Rules have changed over the last 500 years, but have been stable for the last 200 years or so. An excerpt from
http://www.ttebooks.com/royalchess/1history.html

Code: Select all

Since then there have been many major changes in the rules of the game.

About the middle of the 15th century, the French made the single most profound change in the evolvement of the game of Chess. They changed the Viceroy from a him to a her, called her the Queen, and gave her unlimited moves in any direction, suddenly making an almost useless piece into the strongest warrior on the battlefield.

Before the 15th century the Bishop could only move two squares diagonally in any direction, and it could jump over any piece on the first square of its move.

In the early 16th century, pawn promotion-allowing a pawn, upon reaching the eighth rank, to be promoted to any other piece of higher powers-came into effect. Originally, the pawns could only move one square at a time, even on their first move. Their main function was to form the "front lines" as in more modern warfare, a place the enemy wasn't to be allowed past.

A pawn became relatively useless if it advanced too far into enemy territory.

But with the introduction of pawn promotion, an increase in the pawn's mobility became desirable. This brought about the two-move rule used at present.

Seeing that a pawn could sometimes use its two moves to pass an adjacent, opposing pawn, avoiding the necessary opposition of the foot soldiers, the "en passant" rule was introduced.

The King seems to have always moved the same as at the present, except that the game used to be played until he was actually captured. Because of the King's vulnerability due to the Queen's enormous scope and power, several methods of "castling" were tried before the 16th century.

One method was to allow the King to move two or three squares on its initial move.

Another method was to allow the King to move directly to King's Knight two.

The present method of castling was introduced in the mid 16th century by a priest named Ruy Lopez.


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Dr.Wael Deeb
Posts: 9635
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:44 pm
Location: Amman,Jordan

Re: CCRL 40/40 - A most curious game

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:55 pm

tano-urayoan wrote:
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
No,the opening book has a responce against 1. Nc3 but ti's poorly developed,8 halfmoves at best....
Dr.D



I read everything carefuly and that's why I told you that the answer against 1. Nc3 in this outdated opening book is poor....
As for the configuration,yes,he posted the parameters and they are about right...as for the games where the two sides didn't use the opening book,you can terminate Jeorge for this :wink:
Dr.D
The problem is that the games that started with Nc3 neither of the engines used a book. (games 1-3-5)

In the games that engine A used a book it was just 2 or moves (2-4-6)
example game 2 d4 g6 Nf3 Nf6 and again white started analysing on his own but the simple c4 transpose to any indian defense (kings indian,gruenfeld, benoni or even a benko) white choose to play Nc3.
game 4 Nf3 Nc6 d4 d5 here engine started 'thinking' before playing c4 where this is just a transposition to the Chigorin defense.
game 6 repeated the moves from game 4.

So either he is using a wrong configuration transpositions unmarked, or he is using a 2 move book. Because even a 8 move book will know that c4 is a transposition to the Chigorin defense or a queens gambit vs and indian set up.
Thanks,that clears things up....the transposition feature is unmarked....
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

pichy
Posts: 2564
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:04 am

Re: That was the problem, transposition unmarked.

Post by pichy » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:25 am

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
tano-urayoan wrote:
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
No,the opening book has a responce against 1. Nc3 but ti's poorly developed,8 halfmoves at best....
Dr.D



I read everything carefuly and that's why I told you that the answer against 1. Nc3 in this outdated opening book is poor....
As for the configuration,yes,he posted the parameters and they are about right...as for the games where the two sides didn't use the opening book,you can terminate Jeorge for this :wink:
Dr.D
The problem is that the games that started with Nc3 neither of the engines used a book. (games 1-3-5)

In the games that engine A used a book it was just 2 or moves (2-4-6)
example game 2 d4 g6 Nf3 Nf6 and again white started analysing on his own but the simple c4 transpose to any indian defense (kings indian,gruenfeld, benoni or even a benko) white choose to play Nc3.
game 4 Nf3 Nc6 d4 d5 here engine started 'thinking' before playing c4 where this is just a transposition to the Chigorin defense.
game 6 repeated the moves from game 4.

So either he is using a wrong configuration transpositions unmarked, or he is using a 2 move book. Because even a 8 move book will know that c4 is a transposition to the Chigorin defense or a queens gambit vs and indian set up.
Thanks,that clears things up....the transposition feature is unmarked....
Dr.D


Thanks a lot, that was the problem, forgot to check the transposition feature.

Here is the score so far I will let it run for another 100 games, this time at 10 minutes per side. I still don't think that a good opening book give a strong engine more than 30 rating points, but on the other hand if the opening book has errors like in the game Bright vs Cyclone xTreme, then the engine is better off to play without that bad opening book.

Engine Score Ry Ry S-B
1: Rybka v2.3.2a.w32-B 3.5/6 ······ =1==== 8.75
2: Rybka v2.3.2a.w32-A 2.5/6 =0==== ······ 8.75

6 of 100 games played
Name of the tournament: Arena tournament
Site/ Country: Jorge-07E2FB46AF, United States
Level: Tournament Game in 10 Minutes
Hardware: AMD Athlon(TM) XP 2000+ 1662 MHz with 992 MB Memory
Operating system: Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition Service Pack 3 (Build 2600)
PGN-File: C:\Program Files\Arena\Books\arena.pgn
Website:
E-Mail Address:



[Event "Arena tournament"]
[Site "Jorge-07E2FB46AF"]
[Date "2009.10.27"]
[Round "5"]
[White "Rybka v2.3.2a.w32-A"]
[Black "Rybka v2.3.2a.w32-B"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "2900"]
[ECO "E61"]
[Opening "King's Indian"]
[Variation "Smyslov System, 6.e3 c6"]
[WhiteElo "2900"]
[TimeControl "600"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "87"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. c4 g6 {(g7g6 Nb1c3 Bf8g7 Ng1f3 Ng8f6 d2d4 OO e2e4 Nb8c6 Bf1d3 d7d6)} 2.
Nf3 Nf6 {(Ng8f6 d2d4 Bf8g7 Nb1c3 OO e2e4 Nb8c6 Bf1e2 d7d6 OO)} 3. d4 Bg7
{(Bf8g7 Nb1c3 OO e2e4 c7c5 e4e5 Nf6e8 d4xc5 Nb8c6)} 4. Nc3 O-O {(OO e2e4
d7d6 Bf1e2 b7b6 OO Bc8b7 Qd1c2 Nb8c6 Bc1f4)} 5. Bg5 d6 {(d7d6 e2e3 Nb8c6
Bf1d3 Nc6b4 OO c7c6 Bg5xf6 Bg7xf6 h2h3)} 6. e3 Nc6 {(Nb8c6 a2a3 h7h6 Bg5xf6
Bg7xf6 Bf1d3 Bc8d7 OO e7e5)} 7. Be2 {(Bf1e2 h7h6 Bg5xf6 Bg7xf6 OO Bc8d7
Nc3e4 Bf6g7 Qd1b3 b7b6 h2h3)} h6 {(h7h6 Bg5xf6 Bg7xf6 OO Bc8d7 Qd1b3 Ra8b8
Nc3e4 Bf6g7 h2h3)} 8. Bh4 {(Bg5h4 g6g5 Bh4g3 Nf6h5 OO Nh5xg3 h2xg3 Rf8e8
Qd1b3 Ra8b8)} g5 {(g6g5 Bh4g3 Nf6h5 OO Nh5xg3 h2xg3 Bc8g4 Nf3d2 Bg4d7
g3g4)} 9. Bg3 {(Bh4g3)} Nh5 {(Nf6h5 d4d5 Nh5xg3 h2xg3 Nc6b4 a2a3 Nb4a6
Qd1c2 Rf8e8 Nf3d4)} 10. d5 {(d4d5 Nh5xg3 h2xg3 Nc6b4 a2a3 Nb4a6 Qd1c2 e7e5
OOO Na6c5 Kc1b1)} Nb4 {(Nc6b4 a2a3 Nb4a6 Qd1c2 e7e5 d5xe6/ep Bc8xe6 Nf3d4
Nh5xg3 h2xg3 Qd8d7 OOO Na6c5)} 11. a3 {(a2a3 Nb4a6 Qd1c2 e7e6 OOO e6xd5
c4xd5 Na6c5 Nf3d4 Nh5xg3 h2xg3 a7a5 Be2d3 Rf8e8)} Na6 {(Nb4a6 Qd1c2 e7e5
d5xe6/ep Bc8xe6 Nf3d4 Nh5xg3 h2xg3 Na6c5 b2b4 Nc5d7 g3g4)} 12. Qc2 {(Qd1c2
e7e6 OO e6e5 b2b4 f7f5 Nf3d2 Nh5xg3 f2xg3 e5e4 g3g4)} e5 {(e7e5 d5xe6/ep
Bc8xe6 Nf3d4 Nh5xg3 h2xg3 Na6c5 b2b4 Nc5d7 OO Bg7xd4 e3xd4 Nd7f6 Rf1e1)}
13. dxe6 {(d5xe6/ep Bc8xe6 Nf3d4 Nh5xg3 h2xg3 Na6c5 OOO Be6d7 Kc1b1 Rf8e8
g3g4 a7a5)} Bxe6 {(Bc8xe6 Nf3d4 Nh5xg3 h2xg3 Na6c5 b2b4 Nc5d7 OO Qd8e7 g3g4
Rf8e8)} 14. Nd4 {(Nf3d4 Nh5xg3 h2xg3 Na6c5 OOO Be6d7 g3g4 a7a5 Nd4f5 Bd7xf5
g4xf5 Rf8e8 Be2f3)} Nxg3 {(Nh5xg3 h2xg3 Na6c5 OOO Be6d7 g3g4 a7a5 Be2f3
Rf8e8 Nd4f5 Bd7xf5)} 15. hxg3 {(h2xg3 Na6c5 OOO Be6d7 g3g4 a7a5 Nd4f5
Bd7xf5 g4xf5 Rf8e8 Be2f3)} Nc5 {(Na6c5 OOO Be6d7 g3g4 a7a5 Be2f3 Ra8a6
Nd4f5 Bd7xf5 g4xf5 Rf8e8)} 16. O-O-O {(OOO Be6d7 g3g4 a7a5 Nd4f5 Bd7xf5
Qc2xf5 Rf8e8 Be2d3 Nc5xd3+ Qf5xd3 a5a4)} Bd7 {(Be6d7 g3g4 a7a5 Be2f3 Ra8a6
Rh1h5 c7c6 Nd4f5 Bd7xf5 g4xf5 Rf8e8)} 17. g4 {(g3g4 a7a5 Be2f3 Rf8e8 Nc3b5
Ra8a6 Nd4f5 Bd7xf5 Qc2xf5 Nc5b3+ Kc1b1)} a5 {(a7a5 Be2f3 Ra8a6 Rh1h5 c7c6
Rd1h1 Qd8f6 Nd4f5 Bd7xf5)} 18. Bf3 {(Be2f3 Ra8a6 Rh1h5 c7c6 Rd1h1 Qd8f6
Nd4f5 Bd7xf5 g4xf5 Ra6b6)} Ra6 {(Ra8a6 Rh1h5 c7c6 Rd1h1 Qd8f6 Nd4f5 Bd7xf5
g4xf5 Rf8e8)} 19. Rh2 {(Rh1h2 c7c6 Rd1h1 Qd8f6 Bf3e4 Nc5xe4 Nc3xe4 Qf6g6
Nd4f5)} c6 {(c7c6 Rd1h1 Qd8f6 Nc3e2 Rf8e8 Ne2g3 Qf6e5 Kc1b1 Ra6b6)} 20.
Rdh1 {(Rd1h1 Qd8f6 Nc3e2 Qf6g6 Nd4f5 Bd7xf5 g4xf5 Qg6f6 Ne2d4 Ra6b6)} Qf6
{(Qd8f6 Nc3e2 Qf6g6 Nd4f5 Bd7xf5 g4xf5 Qg6f6 Kc1b1 Qf6e7)} 21. Nce2 {(Nc3e2
Qf6g6 Ne2g3 Qg6xc2+ Kc1xc2 Ra6b6 Ng3f5 Bd7xf5+ g4xf5 Nc5d7 Rh1d1 d6d5 Bf3e2
Rf8e8)} Qg6 {(Qf6g6 Ne2g3 Qg6xc2+ Kc1xc2 Ra6b6 Ng3f5 Bd7xf5+ g4xf5 Nc5d7
g2g4 Rf8e8 Rh1d1 Nd7e5)} 22. Ng3 {(Ne2g3 Qg6xc2+ Kc1xc2 Ra6b6 Ng3f5 Bd7xf5+
g4xf5 Nc5d7 Rh1d1 Rf8e8 g2g4 Nd7e5 Bf3e2)} Qxc2+ {(Qg6xc2+ Kc1xc2 Ra6b6
Ng3f5 Bd7xf5+ g4xf5 Nc5d7 Rh1d1 Rf8e8 g2g4 Nd7e5 Bf3e2)} 23. Kxc2
{(Kc1xc2)} Rb6 {(Ra6b6 Ng3f5 Bd7xf5+ g4xf5 d6d5 f5f6 Bg7xf6 Rh2xh6 Bf6g7
Rh6h5 d5xc4 Rh5xg5 Nc5e6 Rg5xa5)} 24. Ngf5 {(Ng3f5 Bd7xf5+ g4xf5 Nc5d7 f5f6
Nd7xf6 Nd4f5 Rf8d8 Nf5xh6+ Bg7xh6 Rh2xh6 Kg8g7 Bf3e2 a5a4)} Bxf5+ {(Bd7xf5+
g4xf5 Nc5d7 f5f6 Nd7xf6 Nd4f5 a5a4 g2g3 Rb6b3 Nf5xh6+ Bg7xh6 Rh2xh6 Kg8g7
Kc2c1)} 25. gxf5 {(g4xf5)} Nd7 {(Nc5d7 f5f6 Nd7xf6 Nd4f5 a5a4 Nf5xh6+
Bg7xh6 Rh2xh6 Kg8g7 Rh6h3 Rf8c8 Rh1d1 d6d5)} 26. Rd1 {(Rh1d1 a5a4 Rh2h1
Rf8e8 Rh1h3 d6d5 Bf3e2 c6c5 Nd4b5)} a4 {(a5a4 Rh2h1 Rf8e8 Rh1h2 Nd7e5 Bf3e2
Ne5d7 Be2f3 Nd7e5 Bf3e2 Ne5d7 Be2f3 Nd7e5 Bf3e2)} 27. g4 {(g2g4 d6d5 c4xd5
c6c5 f5f6 Bg7xf6 Nd4f5 Rb6xb2+ Kc2c1 h6h5 Nf5e7+ Kg8g7)} d5 {(d6d5 c4xd5
c6c5 f5f6 Bg7xf6 Nd4f5 Rb6xb2+ Kc2c1 h6h5 Nf5e7+ Kg8g7 Ne7f5+ Kg7g8
Nf5e7+)} 28. cxd5 {(c4xd5 c6c5 f5f6 Bg7xf6 Nd4f5 Rb6xb2+ Kc2c1 h6h5 Nf5e7+
Kg8g7 Ne7f5+ Kg7g8 Nf5e7+ Kg8g7)} c5 {(c6c5 f5f6 Bg7xf6 Nd4f5 Rb6xb2+ Kc2c1
Rf8e8 Rd1h1 Rb2a2 Nf5xh6+ Kg8f8 Nh6f5)} 29. f6 {(f5f6 Bg7xf6 Nd4f5 Rb6xb2+
Kc2c1 Rf8b8 Nf5xh6+ Kg8f8 Nh6f5 Rb2a2 Rd1h1 Kf8e8)} Bxf6 {(Bg7xf6 Nd4f5
Rb6xb2+ Kc2c1 Rf8e8 Rd1h1 Rb2a2 Nf5xh6+ Kg8f8 Nh6f5 Ra2a1+ Kc1c2 Ra1a2+
Kc2c1)} 30. Nf5 {(Nd4f5)} Rxb2+ {(Rb6xb2+ Kc2c1 Rf8b8 d5d6 Rb2a2 Bf3d5
Ra2xa3 Nf5xh6+ Kg8f8 Nh6xf7 c5c4 Rh2h7 Nd7c5)} 31. Kc1 {(Kc2c1)} Rd8
{(Rf8d8 Nf5xh6+ Kg8f8 Nh6f5 Rb2a2 Rd1h1 Ra2a1+ Kc1c2 Ra1xh1 Bf3xh1 Nd7e5
d5d6 Ne5xg4 Rh2h7)} 32. Nxh6+ {(Nf5xh6+ Kg8f8 Nh6f5 Rb2a2 Rd1h1 Ra2a1+
Kc1c2 Ra1xh1 Bf3xh1 Nd7e5 d5d6 Ne5xg4 Rh2h7)} Kf8 {(Kg8f8 Nh6f5 Rb2a2 Rd1h1
Ra2a1+ Kc1c2 Ra1xh1 Bf3xh1 Nd7e5 d5d6 Ne5xg4 Rh2h7 Rd8d7)} 33. Nf5 {(Nh6f5
Rb2a2 Rd1h1 Ra2a1+ Kc1c2 Ra1xh1 Rh2xh1 Nd7e5 Bf3e2 Rd8xd5 Rh1h6 Ne5g6 f2f3
c5c4)} Ne5 {(Nd7e5 Rh2h6 Ne5xf3 Rh6xf6 Rb2a2 Rf6b6 Ra2a1+ Rb6b1 Ra1xb1+
Kc1xb1 Kf8e8 e3e4 Nf3e5 Nf5e3)} 34. Rh6 {(Rh2h6 Ne5xf3 Rh6xf6 Rb2a2 Rf6b6
Ra2a1+ Rb6b1 Ra1xb1+ Kc1xb1 Kf8e8 e3e4 Nf3e5 Nf5e3)} Nxf3 {(Ne5xf3 Rh6xf6
Rb2a2 Rf6b6 Ra2a1+ Rb6b1 Ra1xb1+ Kc1xb1 Kf8e8 e3e4 Nf3e5 Nf5e3 Rd8d6)} 35.
Rxf6 {(Rh6xf6 Rb2a2 Rf6h6 Kf8e8 Rh6d6 Rd8b8 Nf5g7+ Ke8f8 Ng7f5 Ra2xa3 Rd6h6
Kf8g8)} Ra2 {(Rb2a2 Rf6b6 Ra2a1+ Rb6b1 Ra1xb1+ Kc1xb1 Kf8e8 e3e4 Nf3e5
Kb1c2 b7b5 Nf5e3 b5b4)} 36. Rh6 {(Rf6h6 Kf8e8 Rh6d6 Rd8b8 Nf5g7+ Ke8f8
Ng7f5 Ra2xa3 Rd6h6 Kf8g8 Nf5e7+ Kg8g7 Ne7f5+ Kg7g8)} Ke8 {(Kf8e8 Rh6d6
Rd8b8 Nf5g7+ Ke8f8 Ng7f5 Ra2xa3 Rd6h6 Kf8g8)} 37. Rd6 {(Rh6d6 Rd8b8 Nf5g7+
Ke8f8 Ng7f5 Ra2a1+ Kc1c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+)}
Rb8 {(Rd8b8 Nf5g7+ Ke8f8 Ng7f5 Ra2a1+ Kc1c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2
Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2)} 38. Ng7+ {(Nf5g7+ Ke8f8 Ng7f5 Ra2a1+ Kc1c2
Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+)} Kf8 {(Ke8f8
Ng7f5 Ra2a1+ Kc1c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2
Nf3e1+ Kc2d2)} 39. Nf5 {(Ng7f5 Ra2a1+ Kc1c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2
Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+)} Ra1+ {(Ra2a1+ Kc1c2 Nf3e1+
Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2)}
40. Kc2 {(Kc1c2)} Ne1+ {(Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+
Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2)} 41. Kd2 {(Kc2d2)} Nf3+
{(Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+
Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2)} 42. Kc2 {(Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2
Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+)} Ne1+ {(Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+
Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2)}
43. Kd2 {(Kc2d2)} Nf3+ {(Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+
Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2)} 44. Kc2 {(Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2
Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+ Kc2d2 Ne1f3+ Kd2c2 Nf3e1+)
3-fold repetition} 1/2-1/2

[Event "Arena tournament"]
[Site "Jorge-07E2FB46AF"]
[Date "2009.10.27"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Rybka v2.3.2a.w32-B"]
[Black "Rybka v2.3.2a.w32-A"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "2900"]
[ECO "D02"]
[Opening "Queen's Pawn"]
[Variation "3.g3 g6"]
[WhiteElo "2900"]
[TimeControl "600"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "46"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. Nc3 {(Nb1c3 Nb8c6 Ng1f3 Ng8f6 d2d4 d7d5 Bc1f4 Nf6h5 Qd1d2 Nh5xf4 Qd2xf4
e7e6)} Nf6 {(Ng8f6 Ng1f3 Nb8c6 d2d4 d7d5 Bc1f4 Nf6h5 Bf4e3 Qd8d6 a2a3)} 2.
Nf3 {(Ng1f3 Nb8c6 d2d4 d7d5 g2g3 g7g6 Bf1g2 Bf8g7 OO OO Bc1f4)} Nc6 {(Nb8c6
d2d4 d7d5 g2g3 g7g6 Bf1g2 Bf8g7 OO OO Nf3e5)} 3. d4 {(d2d4 d7d5 g2g3 g7g6
Bf1g2 Bf8g7 OO OO Bc1f4 Nf6h5)} d5 {(d7d5 g2g3 Bc8f5 Nf3h4 Bf5e6 Bf1g2 g7g6
OO Bf8g7 Nh4f3)} 4. g3 {(g2g3 g7g6 Bf1g2 Bf8g7 OO OO Nf3e5 Bc8f5 Bc1f4)} g6
{(g7g6 Bf1g2 Bf8g7 OO OO Nf3e5 Nf6g4 Ne5xc6 b7xc6 h2h3 Ng4f6)} 5. Bg2
{(Bf1g2 Bf8g7 OO OO Nf3e5 Nf6g4 Ne5xg4 Bc8xg4 Bg2xd5 Bg7xd4 Bc1h6 Rf8e8)}
Bg7 {(Bf8g7 OO OO Nf3e5 Nf6g4 Ne5xc6 b7xc6 h2h3 Ng4f6 Ra1b1 Ra8b8)} 6. O-O
{(OO OO Nf3e5 Nf6g4 Ne5xg4 Bc8xg4 Bg2xd5 Bg7xd4 Bc1h6 Rf8e8 Qd1d3)} O-O
{(OO Nf3e5 Nf6g4 Ne5xc6 b7xc6 h2h3 Ng4f6 b2b3 Ra8b8 Bc1f4)} 7. Bf4 {(Bc1f4
Nf6h5 Bf4g5 Bc8e6 a2a3 a7a6 Bg5e3 Nh5f6 Qd1d2)} Nh5 {(Nf6h5 Bf4e3 a7a6 a2a3
Rf8e8 Qd1d2 Bc8f5 Nf3h4 Bf5e6)} 8. Be3 {(Bf4e3 a7a6 Qd1d2 Bc8f5 h2h3 Nh5f6
Nf3e5 Qd8d6)} Re8 {(Rf8e8 Qd1d2 Bc8f5 Ra1d1 Qd8d7 Be3h6 Bg7xh6 Qd2xh6
e7e6)} 9. Qd2 {(Qd1d2 Bc8f5 h2h3 Nh5f6 Nf3e5 Nc6xe5 d4xe5 Nf6e4 Nc3xe4
d5xe4 g3g4 Qd8xd2)} Bf5 {(Bc8f5 h2h3 Nh5f6 Nf3e5 Nc6xe5 d4xe5 Nf6e4 Nc3xe4
d5xe4 g3g4 Qd8xd2)} 10. h3 {(h2h3 Nh5f6 Nf3e5 Nc6xe5 d4xe5 Nf6e4 Nc3xe4
d5xe4 g3g4 Qd8xd2 Be3xd2 Bf5d7)} Nf6 {(Nh5f6 Nf3e5 Nc6xe5 d4xe5 Nf6e4
Nc3xe4 Bf5xe4 Qd2c3 Qd8d7 Ra1d1 Be4xg2 Kg1xg2 c7c6)} 11. Ne5 {(Nf3e5 Nf6e4
Bg2xe4 Bf5xe4 Be3f4 Be4f5 g3g4 Bg7xe5 d4xe5 d5d4 g4xf5)} Ne4 {(Nf6e4 Nc3xe4
Bf5xe4 Ne5xc6 b7xc6 Ra1d1 Qd8d7 b2b3 Be4xg2 Kg1xg2 a7a5 Qd2c3 e7e5)} 12.
Bxe4 {(Bg2xe4 d5xe4 Ne5xc6 b7xc6 g3g4 Bf5c8 Rf1d1 f7f5 Be3h6 Bg7h8 Bh6f4)}
dxe4 {(d5xe4 Ne5xc6 b7xc6 g3g4 Bf5c8 Rf1d1 f7f5 Be3h6 Bg7h8 Bh6f4 Ra8b8)}
13. Nxc6 {(Ne5xc6 b7xc6 g3g4 Bf5c8 Rf1d1 f7f5 Be3h6 Bg7f6 g4g5 Bf6h8
Nc3a4)} bxc6 {(b7xc6)} 14. g4 {(g3g4 Bf5c8 Rf1d1 f7f5 g4g5 Ra8b8 Nc3a4
Qd8d5 b2b3 Re8d8 c2c4)} Bc8 {(Bf5c8 Rf1d1 f7f5 g4g5 Bc8a6 Be3f4 Qd8b8 b2b3
Re8d8)} 15. Rfd1 {(Rf1d1 f7f5 g4g5 Ra8b8 b2b3 e7e5 d4xe5 Qd8xd2 Rd1xd2
Bg7xe5 Be3d4 Be5f4)} f5 {(f7f5 g4g5 Ra8b8 b2b3 e7e5 d4xe5 Qd8xd2 Rd1xd2
Bg7xe5 Be3d4 Be5f4)} 16. g5 {(g4g5 Ra8b8 b2b3 e7e5 d4xe5 Qd8xd2 Rd1xd2
Bg7xe5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4)} Rb8 {(Ra8b8 b2b3 e7e5 d4xe5
Qd8xd2 Rd1xd2 Bg7xe5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3)} 17. b3
{(b2b3 e7e5 d4xe5 Qd8xd2 Rd1xd2 Bg7xe5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4
Bd4e3 Bf4e5)} e5 {(e7e5 d4xe5 Qd8xd2 Rd1xd2 Bg7xe5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5
Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4)} 18. dxe5 {(d4xe5 Qd8xd2 Rd1xd2 Bg7xe5 Be3d4
Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4)} Qxd2 {(Qd8xd2
Rd1xd2 Bg7xe5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4
Bd4e3)} 19. Rxd2 {(Rd1xd2 Bg7xe5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3
Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5)} Bxe5 {(Bg7xe5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4
Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4)} 20. Bd4 {(Be3d4)} Bf4
{(Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4
Be5f4 Bd4e3)} 21. Be3 {(Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4
Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5)} Be5 {(Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5
Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4)} 22. Bd4 {(Be3d4)}
Bf4 {(Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5
Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3)} 23. Be3 {(Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4
Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5 Be3d4 Be5f4 Bd4e3 Bf4e5)} Be5 {(Bf4e5 Be3d4) 3-fold
repetition} 1/2-1/2

tano-urayoan
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:23 pm
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: That was the problem, transposition unmarked.

Post by tano-urayoan » Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:20 am

Again Jorge the second game you posted neither (ninguna) of the engines is using a book. There is problem with your tournament set up.

User avatar
Mike S.
Posts: 1480
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:33 am

Re: That was the problem, transposition unmarked.

Post by Mike S. » Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:01 am

He just won't switch off "save mainline". Instead, he switched off "value, depth and duration" now?! And he will get 50 games with 1.Nc3 because no book at all for one side.

Aaaaargh! This is such an unbelieveable ignorance that it feels like a nasty aggression. I'm starting to believe this is inteded, to troll. Can someone really be like that without bad intention?

Annoying to the max.
Regards, Mike

pichy
Posts: 2564
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:04 am

Re: CCRL 40/40 - A most curious game

Post by pichy » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:17 pm

Mike S. wrote:I think, for this experiment no book at all for one side is not optimal, as we can see from always 1.Nc3 for White. I would use a solid, large book for the other engine, and a short - maybe 3 full moves deep - book, with wide variety, for the "no book" engine. By that, we wouldn't see "engine novelties" earlier than at move no. 4, but 1.Nc3 problems and similar could be avoided.

I guess we don't expect sensations within moves no. 1...3 anyway. 500+ years of master chess practice and analysis should guarantee that, at least...
You are correct at no book at all is only a good option if the the book intended to be used is full of bugs like in the game Bright vs Cyclone xTreme. Now in order to avoid the 1Nc3 for White, what book do you recomend to be used for the short maybe 4 full moves deep with wide variety. Do you have one available at your disposal. For the large one I can always use your most recent Book. If you can email it to me.

I even unchecked the save Main line option by selecting F7 and PGN and Rybka 232a.w32-B is still repeating the 1.Nc3 as its first move for white. :shock:

[Event "Arena tournament"]
[Site "Jorge-07E2FB46AF"]
[Date "2009.10.28"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Rybka v2.3.2a.w32-A"]
[Black "Rybka v2.3.2a.w32-B"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "2900"]
[ECO "D03"]
[Opening "Torre Attack"]
[Variation "3...g6 4.e3"]
[WhiteElo "2900"]
[TimeControl "600"]
[Termination "adjudication"]
[PlyCount "181"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. d4 Nf6 {-0.07/13 37} 2. Nf3 g6 {-0.06/13 21} 3. Bg5 Ne4 {-0.01/13 22} 4.
Bf4 {+0.05/13 15} Bg7 {-0.05/13 13} 5. e3 {+0.10/13 28} d5 {-0.05/13 21} 6.
Bd3 {+0.11/12 41} Nc6 {-0.04/12 8} 7. Nc3 {+0.05/12 20} Nxc3 {-0.08/12 4}
8. bxc3 {+0.04/11 0} O-O {-0.03/12 3} 9. O-O {+0.02/12 6} Re8 {+0.02/13 26}
10. Bb5 {0.00/13 33} f6 {+0.03/12 18} 11. Qd2 {-0.02/12 19} a6 {+0.07/13
18} 12. Be2 {-0.08/13 13} e5 {+0.03/13 11} 13. dxe5 {-0.06/13 15} fxe5
{+0.06/13 4} 14. Bg5 {-0.09/13 29} Qd6 {+0.08/10 4} 15. Rfd1 {-0.13/12 42}
h6 {+0.09/12 9} 16. Bh4 {-0.07/12 6} Be6 {+0.09/11 3} 17. e4 {-0.05/11 3}
d4 {+0.05/11 6} 18. Bg3 {0.00/10 2} Rad8 {+0.13/10 19} 19. Rdb1 {0.00/12
10} b6 {+0.08/11 5} 20. Bxa6 {+0.13/12 10} Qa3 {0.00/13 13} 21. Bb5
{+0.14/11 2} dxc3 {-0.04/13 10} 22. Qe2 {+0.16/12 2} Qc5 {-0.09/13 7} 23.
Qe3 {+0.18/13 8} Nd4 {-0.06/13 18} 24. Bxe8 {+0.27/13 6} Rxe8 {-0.06/13 2}
25. Nxd4 {+0.21/13 3} exd4 {0.00/11 0} 26. Qf4 {+0.19/13 2} d3 {-0.05/12 2}
27. Qxc7 {+0.29/12 3} dxc2 {-0.15/12 21} 28. Rc1 {+0.04/13 28} Qd4
{-0.08/13 7} 29. Qd6 {+0.05/12 10} Bd7 {-0.07/13 30} 30. Re1 {+0.09/13 15}
Re6 {-0.19/13 15} 31. Qd5 {+0.18/13 10} Kf7 {-0.25/12 6} 32. Rac1 {+0.37/13
13} Qxd5 {-0.35/13 13} 33. exd5 {+0.34/11 0} Rxe1+ {-0.32/12 0} 34. Rxe1
{+0.33/14 3} g5 {-0.43/13 1} 35. f3 {+0.47/14 3} Bb5 {-0.47/12 1} 36. Bf2
{+0.49/13 1} Be5 {-0.46/15 5} 37. g3 {+0.44/14 2} Be2 {-0.45/14 1} 38. Kg2
{+0.56/13 1} b5 {-0.45/13 1} 39. Rc1 {+0.52/15 6} Bc4 {-0.44/13 1} 40. Rxc2
{+0.52/14 1} Bxd5 {-0.64/13 1} 41. Bc5 {+0.51/15 5} g4 {-0.49/14 1} 42. Kf2
{+0.49/13 1} Bxf3 {-0.54/16 5} 43. Rc1 {+0.55/14 1} Bd5 {-0.63/15 9} 44.
Bb4 {+0.67/12 2} Bxa2 {-0.63/14 1} 45. Bxc3 {+0.70/13 2} Bd6 {-0.63/13 1}
46. Ke3 {+0.66/12 0} b4 {-0.66/13 8} 47. Rf1+ {+0.66/11 1} Ke6 {-0.60/11 1}
48. Bg7 {+0.68/12 3} Be7 {-0.72/12 3} 49. Kd3 {+0.68/12 1} b3 {-0.67/13 4}
50. Bb2 {+0.68/12 1} h5 {-0.65/13 1} 51. Kc4 {+0.68/14 3} Bd6 {-0.65/13 0}
52. Kb5 {+0.94/14 3} Be7 {-0.85/14 3} 53. Re1+ {+1.03/14 1} Kd7 {-1.00/16
3} 54. Rc1 {+1.06/15 2} Bd6 {-0.96/16 2} 55. Rf1 {+1.06/15 3} Be7 {-1.10/15
4} 56. Rf7 {+1.06/15 1} Ke6 {-1.04/16 3} 57. Rh7 {+0.97/15 2} h4 {-0.93/15
1} 58. gxh4 {+0.97/14 0} Bb1 {-0.98/14 0} 59. Rh6+ {+1.01/13 1} Kd7
{-0.98/14 1} 60. Kc4 {+0.99/13 1} Bd6 {-0.98/13 1} 61. Kxb3 {+0.98/12 1}
Bxh2 {-0.99/13 1} 62. Ra6 {+1.12/13 4} Bc7 {-1.12/12 4} 63. Ra7 {+1.12/13
1} Kc6 {-1.12/12 0} 64. Ra1 {+1.26/14 8} Bf5 {-1.19/12 2} 65. Kc4 {+1.60/13
8} g3 {-1.12/11 0} 66. h5 {+1.75/12 2} Bf4 {-1.31/12 2} 67. Ra6+ {+1.63/10
0} Kd7 {-1.97/13 3} 68. Kd5 {+1.94/10 0} g2 {-1.98/13 3} 69. Ra7+ {+2.03/12
0} Bc7 {-2.25/14 0} 70. Bd4 {+2.07/12 0} Bc2 {-2.33/14 2} 71. h6 {+2.99/13
0} Kc8 {-2.55/14 1} 72. Ra1 {+3.42/12 0} Bf4 {-3.62/14 3} 73. Ra6 {+3.09/10
0} Bc7 {-3.87/12 1} 74. Rc6 {+3.84/12 0} Bh7 {-3.82/12 2} 75. Bb6 {+4.06/12
0} Bg8+ {-4.27/11 0} 76. Ke4 {+3.67/11 0} Bh7+ {-5.11/15 2} 77. Kf3
{+3.67/10 0} g1=Q {-5.13/15 2} 78. Bxg1 {+4.11/12 0} Kd7 {-5.13/14 0} 79.
Rf6 {+5.19/11 0} Ke7 {-5.48/13 0} 80. Ra6 {+5.56/11 0} Bd3 {-5.89/12 1} 81.
Ra7 {+5.83/9 0} Kd8 {-5.91/12 0} 82. Be3 {+5.88/10 0} Bf5 {-6.48/11 2} 83.
Bg5+ {+6.46/11 1} Kc8 {-6.69/13 3} 84. Bf4 {+6.46/10 0} Bb6 {-6.60/9 0} 85.
h7 {+6.50/9 0} Bd4 {-6.58/10 0} 86. Bd6 {+6.60/10 1} Kd8 {-6.60/9 0} 87.
Kf4 {+6.65/10 1} Bxh7 {-6.63/10 0} 88. Rxh7 {+6.61/8 0} Ke8 {-10.20/10 1}
89. Be5 {+10.30/11 0} Bf2 {-10.30/12 2} 90. Kf5 {+10.38/12 1} Kd8
{-10.31/11 0} 91. Ke6 {+10.44/11 2} ... {1-0 Arena Adjudication} 1-0

[Event "Arena tournament"]
[Site "Jorge-07E2FB46AF"]
[Date "2009.10.28"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Rybka v2.3.2a.w32-B"]
[Black "Rybka v2.3.2a.w32-A"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "2900"]
[ECO "D02"]
[Opening "Queen's Pawn"]
[Variation "3.g3 g6"]
[WhiteElo "2900"]
[TimeControl "600"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "46"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. Nc3 {+0.12/14 17} Nf6 {-0.09/13 16} 2. Nf3 {+0.11/14 38} Nc6 {-0.06/13
22} 3. d4 {+0.07/13 16} d5 {-0.07/13 8} 4. g3 {+0.09/12 3} g6 {-0.07/13 22}
5. Bg2 {+0.07/13 9} Bg7 {-0.03/13 7} 6. O-O {+0.05/12 5} O-O {-0.03/12 5}
7. Bf4 {+0.03/12 24} Nh5 {-0.06/12 20} 8. Be3 {+0.07/11 15} Re8 {-0.10/11
22} 9. Qd2 {+0.11/12 26} Bf5 {-0.11/11 6} 10. h3 {+0.09/11 3} Nf6 {-0.08/12
7} 11. Ne5 {+0.04/11 10} Ne4 {-0.01/12 13} 12. Bxe4 {+0.02/12 9} dxe4
{+0.06/13 11} 13. Nxc6 {-0.07/13 5} bxc6 {+0.06/11 0} 14. g4 {0.00/14 16}
Bc8 {+0.03/12 4} 15. Rfd1 {0.00/13 6} f5 {0.00/12 5} 16. g5 {0.00/13 6} Rb8
{0.00/14 17} 17. b3 {0.00/14 11} e5 {0.00/14 9} 18. dxe5 {0.00/14 4} Qxd2
{0.00/15 5} 19. Rxd2 {0.00/15 3} Bxe5 {0.00/15 3} 20. Bd4 {0.00/13 0} Bf4
{0.00/15 4} 21. Be3 {0.00/17 10} Be5 {0.00/17 4} 22. Bd4 {0.00/13 0} Bf4
{0.00/17 6} 23. Be3 {0.00/18 4} Be5 {0.00/18 4 3-fold repetition} 1/2-1/2

[Event "Arena tournament"]
[Site "Jorge-07E2FB46AF"]
[Date "2009.10.28"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Rybka v2.3.2a.w32-A"]
[Black "Rybka v2.3.2a.w32-B"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "2900"]
[ECO "D77"]
[Opening "Neo-Grünfeld, 6.O-O dxc4 7.Na3 Nc6 8.Nxc4"]
[Variation "Fianchetto"]
[WhiteElo "2900"]
[TimeControl "600"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "93"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. d4 Nf6 {-0.07/13 37} 2. Nf3 g6 {-0.06/13 21} 3. g3 Bg7 {-0.05/14 17} 4.
c4 d5 {+0.12/13 18} 5. Bg2 dxc4 {0.00/12 13} 6. Na3 Nc6 {0.00/12 11} 7.
Nxc4 {0.00/13 17} O-O {+0.05/12 17} 8. O-O {0.00/12 8} Bf5 {+0.06/11 5} 9.
Qb3 {0.00/11 23} Rb8 {0.00/12 19} 10. Rd1 {0.00/11 5} Be6 {0.00/12 7} 11.
Qd3 {0.00/13 19} Nb4 {0.00/13 11} 12. Qb3 {0.00/14 14} Nc6 {0.00/13 3} 13.
Qc3 {0.00/13 17} Ne4 {0.00/12 14} 14. Qd3 {0.00/12 3} Nb4 {0.00/13 21} 15.
Qxe4 {0.00/12 4} Bd5 {-0.07/13 11} 16. Qb1 {+0.04/13 13} Bxc4 {-0.06/11 0}
17. Bd2 {+0.03/12 3} a5 {-0.06/12 12} 18. Qe4 {+0.04/12 14} Bd5 {-0.04/12
29} 19. Qh4 {+0.02/12 48} Bc4 {0.00/11 12} 20. Re1 {+0.03/10 10} Re8
{+0.04/10 4} 21. Bxb4 {-0.09/10 25} axb4 {+0.12/10 2} 22. e3 {-0.19/12 24}
Ra8 {+0.21/12 9} 23. Ne5 {-0.19/12 10} Bd5 {+0.17/12 4} 24. Bxd5 {-0.15/13
11} Qxd5 {+0.16/10 0} 25. Nd3 {-0.23/13 3} e5 {+0.21/12 8} 26. Nxb4
{-0.28/13 11} Qc4 {+0.32/13 10} 27. dxe5 {-0.32/14 15} Qxh4 {+0.32/13 3}
28. gxh4 {-0.29/12 0} Rxe5 {+0.30/13 8} 29. Red1 {-0.26/14 14} Re4
{+0.40/13 9} 30. Nd3 {-0.38/13 11} b6 {+0.41/13 5} 31. a3 {-0.34/13 8} c5
{+0.31/12 9} 32. Rab1 {-0.38/13 4} Rg4+ {+0.22/13 13} 33. Kh1 {-0.15/14 16}
Rxh4 {+0.14/13 16} 34. Nf4 {-0.10/13 14} Re8 {+0.14/12 2} 35. Nd5 {0.00/12
3} b5 {+0.07/12 7} 36. Nc7 {-0.09/12 6} Rb8 {+0.11/11 1} 37. Rd5 {-0.01/12
2} Rc4 {+0.05/13 7} 38. Kg2 {0.00/12 2} Bf6 {0.00/12 5} 39. Rd2 {0.00/12 6}
Rg4+ {-0.02/13 13} 40. Kf3 {+0.04/13 4} Rg5 {0.00/11 4} 41. Nd5 {0.00/12 2}
Rf5+ {0.00/12 2} 42. Ke2 {0.00/14 7} Kg7 {0.00/11 4} 43. Rbd1 {0.00/14 7}
Rd8 {0.00/13 3} 44. Nc7 {0.00/13 1} Rb8 {0.00/12 1} 45. Nd5 {0.00/13 1} Rd8
{0.00/14 1} 46. Nc7 {0.00/15 4} Rb8 {0.00/14 1} 47. Nd5 {0.00/14 12 3-fold
repetition} 1/2-1/2

[Event "Arena tournament"]
[Site "Jorge-07E2FB46AF"]
[Date "2009.10.28"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Rybka v2.3.2a.w32-B"]
[Black "Rybka v2.3.2a.w32-A"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "2900"]
[ECO "D02"]
[Opening "Queen's Pawn"]
[Variation "3.g3 g6"]
[WhiteElo "2900"]
[TimeControl "600"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "46"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. Nc3 {+0.12/14 17} Nf6 {-0.09/13 16} 2. Nf3 {+0.11/14 38} Nc6 {-0.06/13
22} 3. d4 {+0.07/13 16} d5 {-0.07/13 8} 4. g3 {+0.09/12 4} g6 {-0.07/13 22}
5. Bg2 {+0.07/13 9} Bg7 {-0.03/13 7} 6. O-O {+0.05/12 5} O-O {-0.03/12 5}
7. Bf4 {+0.03/12 24} Nh5 {-0.06/12 20} 8. Be3 {+0.07/11 15} Re8 {-0.10/11
22} 9. Qd2 {+0.11/12 26} Bf5 {-0.11/11 6} 10. h3 {+0.09/11 3} Nf6 {-0.08/12
7} 11. Ne5 {+0.04/11 10} Ne4 {-0.01/12 12} 12. Bxe4 {+0.02/12 9} dxe4
{+0.06/13 11} 13. Nxc6 {-0.07/13 5} bxc6 {+0.06/11 0} 14. g4 {0.00/14 16}
Bc8 {+0.03/12 4} 15. Rfd1 {0.00/13 6} f5 {0.00/12 5} 16. g5 {0.00/13 6} Rb8
{0.00/14 17} 17. b3 {0.00/14 10} e5 {0.00/14 9} 18. dxe5 {0.00/14 4} Qxd2
{0.00/15 5} 19. Rxd2 {0.00/15 3} Bxe5 {0.00/15 3} 20. Bd4 {0.00/13 0} Bf4
{0.00/15 4} 21. Be3 {0.00/17 10} Be5 {0.00/17 4} 22. Bd4 {0.00/13 0} Bf4
{0.00/17 6} 23. Be3 {0.00/18 4} Be5 {0.00/18 4 3-fold repetition} 1/2-1/2

[Event "Arena tournament"]
[Site "Jorge-07E2FB46AF"]
[Date "2009.10.28"]
[Round "5"]
[White "Rybka v2.3.2a.w32-A"]
[Black "Rybka v2.3.2a.w32-B"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "2900"]
[ECO "C45"]
[Opening "Scotch"]
[Variation "4.Nxd4 Bc5 5.Nb3 Bb6"]
[WhiteElo "2900"]
[TimeControl "600"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "77"]
[WhiteType "program"]
[BlackType "program"]

1. e4 Nc6 {-0.07/14 43} 2. Nf3 e5 {-0.07/14 22} 3. d4 exd4 {-0.01/12 8} 4.
Nxd4 Bc5 {+0.03/12 5} 5. Nb3 Bb6 {+0.09/13 17} 6. Nc3 Nf6 {+0.07/12 4} 7.
Be2 O-O {+0.16/13 16} 8. Bg5 h6 {+0.28/13 13} 9. Bh4 {-0.30/13 17} g5
{+0.32/12 16} 10. Bg3 {-0.23/13 6} Re8 {+0.23/12 5} 11. O-O {-0.17/13 39}
a5 {+0.18/12 30} 12. Nd2 {-0.10/12 12} d6 {+0.15/12 21} 13. h3 {-0.14/11 5}
a4 {+0.14/11 13} 14. a3 {-0.10/13 28} Bd4 {+0.14/11 10} 15. Bd3 {-0.05/12
11} g4 {+0.07/12 18} 16. hxg4 {-0.01/12 13} Bxg4 {+0.06/12 9} 17. Be2
{0.00/12 16} Qc8 {+0.04/12 10} 18. Bxg4 {0.00/12 10} Qxg4 {0.00/13 6} 19.
Qxg4+ {+0.04/13 5} Nxg4 {0.00/12 0} 20. Nd5 {0.00/14 6} Rac8 {0.00/12 3}
21. Rab1 {+0.01/14 36} Ne7 {0.00/13 19} 22. Nc3 {+0.01/13 3} Ng6 {-0.02/13
18} 23. Nf3 {+0.04/14 24} Bxc3 {0.00/13 5} 24. bxc3 {+0.03/12 0} Nf6
{0.00/14 7} 25. e5 {+0.01/15 26} Ne4 {0.00/14 7} 26. Rxb7 {0.00/15 21} Nxg3
{0.00/14 8} 27. fxg3 {0.00/13 0} Nxe5 {0.00/14 4} 28. Ra7 {+0.03/14 17} Ra8
{0.00/15 6} 29. Rxc7 {0.00/13 2} Rec8 {0.00/15 3} 30. Rb7 {0.00/16 12} Rxc3
{0.00/15 4} 31. Nxe5 {0.00/16 7} dxe5 {0.00/13 0} 32. Rfxf7 {0.00/16 3}
Rxg3 {0.00/15 3} 33. Rh7 {0.00/15 2} e4 {0.00/14 7} 34. Rxh6 {0.00/14 6}
Rxa3 {0.00/15 7} 35. Rg6+ {0.00/13 2} Kf8 {0.00/15 2} 36. Rf6+ {0.00/15 10}
Kg8 {0.00/16 3} 37. Rg6+ {0.00/15 3} Kf8 {0.00/59 0} 38. Rf6+ {0.00/16 11}
Kg8 {0.00/18 2} 39. Rg6+ {0.00/16 6 3-fold repetition} 1/2-1/2

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Graham Banks
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Re: CCRL 40/40 - A most curious game

Post by Graham Banks » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:33 pm

pichy wrote:You are correct at no book at all is only a good option if the the book intended to be used is full of bugs like in the game Bright vs Cyclone xTreme.
Harry's book is actually a very high quality book, so you shouldn't be throwing around unnecessary remarks that sully his reputation.
I challenge you to go through his HS-10moves.abk book and post all the bad lines that you can find. I have never come across a line as bad as this one previously, so I'd say you'll be struggling.
You can also go through all the CCRL games played with this book and check the openings if you're so interested in looking for ammunition to damage his reputation. I can assure you you won't come up with much either way.
There are no perfect opening books, but I'll repeat my assertion that Harry's are among the very best. I have no qualms whatsoever about using them. I know that many of the CEGT testers share this opinion. The game posted is a one off.

Graham.
My email addresses:
gbanksnz at gmail.com
gbanksnz at yahoo.co.nz

pichy
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Re: CCRL 40/40 - A most curious game

Post by pichy » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:29 am

Graham Banks wrote:
pichy wrote:You are correct at no book at all is only a good option if the the book intended to be used is full of bugs like in the game Bright vs Cyclone xTreme.
Harry's book is actually a very high quality book, so you shouldn't be throwing around unnecessary remarks that sully his reputation.
I challenge you to go through his HS-10moves.abk book and post all the bad lines that you can find. I have never come across a line as bad as this one previously, so I'd say you'll be struggling.
You can also go through all the CCRL games played with this book and check the openings if you're so interested in looking for ammunition to damage his reputation. I can assure you you won't come up with much either way.
There are no perfect opening books, but I'll repeat my assertion that Harry's are among the very best. I have no qualms whatsoever about using them. I know that many of the CEGT testers share this opinion. The game posted is a one off.

Graham.
How can you delect the bad lines found in the game Bright vs Cyclone xTreme. Do you have a clean or filtered HS-10 moves.abk :?:

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Graham Banks
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Re: CCRL 40/40 - A most curious game

Post by Graham Banks » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:15 am

pichy wrote: How can you delect the bad lines found in the game Bright vs Cyclone xTreme. Do you have a clean or filtered HS-10 moves.abk :?:
No idea how to this. I just use the books, not make them or investigate them. Sorry.
My email addresses:
gbanksnz at gmail.com
gbanksnz at yahoo.co.nz

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Guenther
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Re: CCRL 40/40 - A most curious game

Post by Guenther » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:24 am

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Guenther wrote:
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
tano-urayoan wrote:Following the games you posted there is a problem. In the first and third neither engine is using a book. In the second and fourth one the book was just 2 moves.

You should check your configuration for this test.
He's using the right configuration but unfortunately his test shows no sense as every time Rybka plays 1.Nc3,there is not much to be answered with....
Dr.D
Do you mean the used book has _zero_ book moves against 1. Nc3?
Well he could have noticed this already in the second game then ;-)

Guenther
No,the opening book has a responce against 1. Nc3 but ti's poorly developed,8 halfmoves at best....
Dr.D
I downloaded the Rybka.abk and looked it up now. You are wrong
and this book has _no_ move against 1. Nc3!
(No matter if min games is set to 1 or >1)
Thus you two times made a wrong answer here despite my questioning.

The case is closed now. There were two setup problems.
a: Jorge did not check the transposition box
b: He used a book which does not cover 1. Nc3 at all

Thanks to Tano and Mike for trying to clear up this mystery.

Guenther

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