morality and legality of dowloading robbolito

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

So we the stupid sheeps have no right whatever to ask questions

Stay on topic and ask this questions from the devil, here is where you get the answers. So begin to ask or is it true that you have none?

I am on topic and I am asking you again,please don't slip away like a water snake:
Do you deprive us the computer chess fans of our right to ask questions and take for granted everything related to the Rybka chess engine

Please if anyone here finds my question off topic or insulting somehow,please do drop me a note here....
Thanks you,
Dr.D

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Oh really puuuuhleeeeeeeeeeze

Well, it's time they listen to our opinions and start answering our
questions. isn't it bout time they put up or keep quiet.

The Rybka's sectarians don't understand this simple logic Marie,they just don't want to....
It's even worse,when you try to express your opinion and start to ask questions,they get mad at you and start to tell you to stop bashing their prophet....I've never seen a perfect brain wash like this,never....
Dr.D

Well,I am trying to make them answer some basic questions and it seems that they are failing the exam so far....
They have nothing to back up there statements here except maybe a few exchanged e-mails with Rybka's author assuring them that this is the case....nothing but a blind faith....
Dr.D

[dr_zied_haddad]

It's moral, whether it is legal or not it depends if it's really a stolen code.

The main problem with these programmers is that they are known as engine cloners. but those cloners (like was rajlich when developing his rybka, because he was inspired by crafty, fruit and other engines) are becoming strong programmers.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

It's moral, whether it is legal or not it depends if it's really a stolen code.

The main problem with these programmers is that they are known as engine cloners. but those cloners (like was rajlich when developing his rybka, because he was inspired by crafty, fruit and other engines) are becoming strong programmers.

No worries,soon they'll be surpassed and when the time comes,I'll dig these posts from the CCC archive and laugh myself to death....

[Gian-Carlo Pascutto]

The conclusion from this poll (so far) is that 57% of the people posting here have no problem making themselves believe the following:

An engine that

a) Comes from author(s) that refuse to identify themselves, despite being the strongest in the world
b) Is given away freely despite (a)
c) Is obviously reverse engineered (even if you believe the bs about the "b" language)
d) Has been identified as an illegal clone by the Wch who *did* identify himself thus opening himself up for a libel suit if he's lying.

...is legal!

[Watchman]

Vas remained silent regarding Fruit yet he spoke out loud about Strelka and Ippo(he said they were clones of Rybka) and this resulted in the controversy we have today
in other words he was inconsistent
you cant have it both ways

When one is accused of something and remains silent... I think that is wise and it makes me wonder about the veracity of someone else's "claim." No way I can determine "innocence or guilt."

When in this case Vas says, "such and such is a clone," No I don't see that as "having it both ways." Until it is demonstrated that Vas makes such claims and they prove to be false (even once would be sufficient for me as deeming him untrustworthy). However, At this point, I am willing to take him at his word.

but i think a better portrayal of your position here is that you tend to believe him whether he remains silent or speaks out

I believe in the Proverb, "In the multitude of words, sin is not lacking." It is so easy to watch people open their mouths and watch them destroy their credibility. So, less said is better imo and a wise thing.

However, there is no way I can "judge" the situation because he hasn't spoken out about the Fruit Connection (other than "the ideas"). So there is nothing for me to believe about him re: that. I am no Rybka Fanboy. How can I actually "believe him" when he has said nothing on the matter? I may tend to believe he is innocent, but that really is just self-musing and is really neither here nor there on an actual "judgment." I think it's worth giving him the benefit of the doubt.

did you ever arrest someone (guilty in your eyes) and suddenly think they were innocent because they did not go back to be booked kicking and screaming along the way?

I never ever arrested someone unless I could write up in the incident report, specific elements that demonstrated violation of criminal statute (DUI: before stopping subject swerved across centerline 3 times, smell of alcohol on subject's breath, speech was slurred, unable to retrieve driver's license without fumbling for it, unable to perform 9-Step Walk and Turn, Unable to hold one foot off the ground 12" w/o putting down 6 times, [Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus Angle of Onset 30 degrees/Lack of Smooth Pursuit, Nystagmus at Max Deviation x2 for all], administered BAC by Trooper So-and-So Certified Operator at Post No. Such and Such and Certified Machine No. such and such at this time.. result was 0.25% BAC).

It had absolutely nothing to do with behaviour per se as you state. I wasn't there to determine innocence or guilt... only if a crime had taken place. Innocence or Guilt rests with a Judge and/or Jury. That "not going back kicking and screaming" just keep them from being hog-tied and adding another charge, that of "Resisting Law Enforcement," being added.

[Rolf]

Do you deprive us the computer chess fans of our right to ask questions and take for granted everything related to the Rybka chess engine

Of course you can.

If you ask if someone, with programmer talents becomes crazy and is only focussing on clone making all day long, could get a life sentence if Vas sued him, then I can assure you that I will personally interfere and guarantee that this comrade gets a nice place in one of the seperate housing units where they are nourished under medical supervision. They could play soccer and at nighttime they are allowed to visit the CCC. There they could debate extensively about clones and why clones must be protected after the Human Rights Charta. BTW Doctor, would you help us with your expertise and open recreation groups at the Centre de Rehabilitation? I have right now a nice job there where you could combine your medical knowledge with the cloning topic. Just contact me under the known email address. Thanks. Please learn from now on, there is no sense in hate campaigns, we must better think positive.

All the very best to you.

[rhollay]

It's moral, whether it is legal or not it depends if it's really a stolen code.

The main problem with these programmers is that they are known as engine cloners. but those cloners (like was rajlich when developing his rybka, because he was inspired by crafty, fruit and other engines) are becoming strong programmers.

Sorry, but IMO it's a little bit too harsh to call Vasik Rajlich a cloner. First of all, there are no strong evidences for such a statement.
Furthermore, following this logic you could call every programmer a cloner. E.g. C programmers are using libraries, written by other programmers.
They are using well-known sentences, structures, patterns in their code, which they have learned from books or reading others' code.
You will hardly find a program, being it computer chess or any other, which you can consider as pure "original" work.
Every programmer is "inspired" by work of others.
I think that many here are using words "clone" or "cloner" too rashly. If you would like to write an _original_ program then you should create your
own OS and programming language from scratch.

[Steve B]

When one is accused of something and remains silent... I think that is wise and it makes me wonder about the veracity of someone else's "claim." No way I can determine "innocence or guilt."

you also mentioned you tended to think that silence was an indication of innocence and not only just wisdom:
a quote from your first post...

(Although I am prejudiced here, as I tend to think the quiet ones, barring evidence to the contrary, are the innocent ones.)

i tend to think that prolonged silence if one is supposedly falsely accused of something ..is more an indication of guilt to some extent then an indication of innocence
but i guess we will have to agree to disagree here

It had absolutely nothing to do with behaviour per se as you state. I wasn't there to determine innocence or guilt... only if a crime had taken place. Innocence or Guilt rests with a Judge and/or Jury. That "not going back kicking and screaming" just keep them from being hog-tied and adding another charge, that of "Resisting Law Enforcement," being added.

i gave the behavior of kicking and screaming as an example of the opposite of remaining silent
surely if you arrested someone you must also think they were guilty of the very crime you just arrested them for or i guess you would not have arrested them in the first place
just pointing out that someone you accessed as guilty of having perpetrated a crime can remain as silent as a monk taking the vows of silence and still be as guilty as sin
although i guess the ones pissing their pants and screaming and kicking in the back of the squad car are probably just as guilty
Steve

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Do you deprive us the computer chess fans of our right to ask questions and take for granted everything related to the Rybka chess engine

Of course you can.

If you ask if someone, with programmer talents becomes crazy and is only focussing on clone making all day long, could get a life sentence if Vas sued him, then I can assure you that I will personally interfere and guarantee that this comrade gets a nice place in one of the seperate housing units where they are nourished under medical supervision. They could play soccer and at nighttime they are allowed to visit the CCC. There they could debate extensively about clones and why clones must be protected after the Human Rights Charta. BTW Doctor, would you help us with your expertise and open recreation groups at the Centre de Rehabilitation? I have right now a nice job there where you could combine your medical knowledge with the cloning topic. Just contact me under the known email address. Thanks. Please learn from now on, there is no sense in hate campaigns, we must better think positive.

All the very best to you.

True and thanks to you too....
Cheers,
Dr.D