Frayer's opinion expressed at the Rybka forum....

[Harvey Williamson]

As a non-paying customer I agree with most of what you say. The fact remains though that Vas promised a bug fix version. If he had not then no problem.

IMO it's dishonest to deliberately take one aspect out of context and then calling it the absolute offense when in context it would look different. It just doesnt look good that you as a competitor are on such a trip.

You have a chance IMO to clean your name if you exactly show evidence.

1) When was what promised?

2) When exactly came the Strelka smear?

3) Why dont you see any connect between the whole stealing or clone aspect influencing the decisions for Vas?

4) When exactly began the evil campaign against Rybka on CCC by people like Theron, Wegner, Hyatt or Schmidt?

5) Why dont you see any connect between such activities and Vas' business decisions?

6) When exactly the actual anonymous jerks began to blackmail Vas? Why dont you see any connect with Vas' decisions on bugs etc?

7) How would that look iof Hiarcs were chasted like Rybka. Have you not a natural shame as a collegue and competitor of Vas to be more hesitating here in Public? What would you do if you were in focus of the mafia blackmail?

8) Could you swear here that in Hiarcs there is zero from Fruit? Or from any former engine since Hiarcs is now existing? Can you prove it? Please open your source so that this could be researched. It's not against you but it's just for research and progress.

Already many thanks for any reply. BTW you know that this is NOT a message meant to harm you personally. It's just for the purpose to see if you are sober or somewhat bigot because it's not about you and your program.

What has any of this got to do with the fact that Vas promised a bugfix for R3 to his customers. Have I posted anywhere my opinion on the Strelka debate? I do not think so.

[Rolf]

What has any of this got to do with the fact that Vas promised a bugfix for R3 to his customers. Have I posted anywhere my opinion on the Strelka debate? I do not think so.

Excuse me if I give you a little lecture but it seems that you didnt know it. We humans are no machines and new events do have influence on our plans and promisses. As a competitor I expected a bit more decency of you and that you tried to put yourself into Vas' situation. Dont you have no moral above being a competitor in computerchess business?

You must not know such details but I asked comrade Bob the same question. In science it is highly important to see the context and not only seperated little details. Only with the context you can make evaluations. A mere beancounter machine like researches is a blind duck but not a wise man. Because the details could speak for this or that, depending of what you want to prove.

But perhaps you begin to understand that it's always good if you think about your steps. Before you shout BUT HE PROMISED next time you analyse what he could possibly do after the crimes began.

[Harvey Williamson]

What has any of this got to do with the fact that Vas promised a bugfix for R3 to his customers. Have I posted anywhere my opinion on the Strelka debate? I do not think so.

Excuse me if I give you a little lecture but it seems that you didnt know it. We humans are no machines and new events do have influence on our plans and promisses. As a competitor I expected a bit more decency of you and that you tried to put yourself into Vas' situation. Dont you have no moral above being a competitor in computerchess business?

You must not know such details but I asked comrade Bob the same question. In science it is highly important to see the context and not only seperated little details. Only with the context you can make evaluations. A mere beancounter machine like researches is a blind duck but not a wise man. Because the details could speak for this or that, depending of what you want to prove.

But perhaps you begin to understand that it's always good if you think about your steps. Before you shout BUT HE PROMISED next time you analyse what he could possibly do after the crimes began.

I know that if I buy goods and there are faults which the manufacturer/retailer promises to fix that I am entitled to the fix or a refund. I am sure it is the same in Germany?

BTW Why do you post under that stupid A WRIST name on the Rybka forum?

[Rolf]

I know that if I buy goods and there are faults which the manufacturer/retailer promises to fix that I am entitled to the fix or a refund. I am sure it is the same in Germany?

BTW Why do you post under that stupid A WRIST name on the Rybka forum?

Honestly I have never had a software over years that had not at a certain point a problem. But the I learned that there is no software without bugs. I would expect recompensation if the SW wouldnt work at all. But this did never happen in all the past almost 20 years. Rybka worked fine for me all the time.

Then to your second point. BTW you didnt answer any of my points which I asked you to consider. Some seven points. Do you think it's honest to come back with questions.

I didnt know that you had such a lack of education that you begin here to ask personal questions of privacy. But I have nothing to hide. So here is my privacy corrupted by Williamson:

I was also formerly a member over there in the forum and couldnt get on because I had lost my PW. For Rolf. Rolf had already been used for such some. And then I had the idea to simply open a new account.

However I didnt consider your level of education, otherwise I would have chosen a not so stupid name. The name here means "by all that is right and fair" or "in all conscience", but again, this is too high levelled for readers who then publish the evidence for their own state of mind.

Now I remember when I met you on the net when you were operating Hiarcs and tweaked unfairly the time against the rules...

[Frayer]

Gentlemen:

The first thing I would like to say is that I appreciate Dr.Wael Deeb’s intent to stimulate debate on this topic. (The stagnation of Rybka development and a return to proven academic methods.) However, in my original post on the Rybka Forum (Is the Cult of Vas Crumbling) I did not make use of the names of any chess engines. He has added these himself, all be it in parentheses. It does give the impression that I am condoning one particular engine (which may or may not have violated intellectual property rights). I am not.

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... ?tid=13560

To the gentleman that has said I am advocating the theft of Vasik Rajlich property, I would remind him that much has be written on this very forum in regards to how much Vas plagiarized the work of programmers that came before him. In the same thread over on the Rybka Forum I wrote.

“Vas used ideas as well as code from chess software that came before him. At MIT he had access to the work of countless computer scientists that feely made their work available for his edification.
This is the crux of the Cult of Vas, that he somehow gave birth to revolutionary new ideas in computer science. But I say to you, what he really did was tweak existing work into a practical application. Henry Ford had little to do with the original development of the automobile, but his assembly line method and marketing strategies helped put autos in the hands of millions. There will always be men willing to stand on the shoulders of true innovators and grab the brass ring of profit.”

Lastly I would like to point out, all this would be moot, if Vas had in fact delivered as promised. Made good his assertion that he would fix the bugs we all discovered in Rybka 3 and released a new product in a timely fashion. The high end users of his software are extremely dissatisfied with his new business scheme, intended to give him maximum control of the engine chess world. There is nothing wrong with profiting from ones work, but what I see happing here is exploiting ones loyal fan base. Lets kick him to the side of the road and make way for others to carry the torch.

[Graham Banks]

Lets kick him to the side of the road and make way for others to carry the torch.

A few people here need kicking to the side of the road.

[mariaclara]

Rolf,

it doesn't need a genius to clearly see you haven't answered the question:

did vas promise to release a rybka 3+?

Thank you.

yes___

no ___

I don't know ___

[michiguel]

Gentlemen:

The first thing I would like to say is that I appreciate Dr.Wael Deeb’s intent to stimulate debate on this topic. (The stagnation of Rybka development and a return to proven academic methods.) However, in my original post on the Rybka Forum (Is the Cult of Vas Crumbling) I did not make use of the names of any chess engines. He has added these himself, all be it in parentheses. It does give the impression that I am condoning one particular engine (which may or may not have violated intellectual property rights). I am not.

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... ?tid=13560

To the gentleman that has said I am advocating the theft of Vasik Rajlich property, I would remind him that much has be written on this very forum in regards to how much Vas plagiarized the work of programmers that came before him. In the same thread over on the Rybka Forum I wrote.

“Vas used ideas as well as code from chess software that came before him. At MIT he had access to the work of countless computer scientists that feely made their work available for his edification.
This is the crux of the Cult of Vas, that he somehow gave birth to revolutionary new ideas in computer science. But I say to you, what he really did was tweak existing work into a practical application. Henry Ford had little to do with the original development of the automobile, but his assembly line method and marketing strategies helped put autos in the hands of millions. There will always be men willing to stand on the shoulders of true innovators and grab the brass ring of profit.”

Lastly I would like to point out, all this would be moot, if Vas had in fact delivered as promised. Made good his assertion that he would fix the bugs we all discovered in Rybka 3 and released a new product in a timely fashion. The high end users of his software are extremely dissatisfied with his new business scheme, intended to give him maximum control of the engine chess world. There is nothing wrong with profiting from ones work, but what I see happing here is exploiting ones loyal fan base. Lets kick him to the side of the road and make way for others to carry the torch.

and the pitchforks!

Miguel

[bob]

Just for the record, you are in a discussion that has no end, and in an argument that will never be resolved.

[Graham Banks]

Just for the record, you are in a discussion that has no end, and in an argument that will never be resolved.

We all live in hope.