Career and Interests

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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What was the reason for Vas choosing this business?

A
4
20%
B
3
15%
C
0
No votes
D
3
15%
E
10
50%
 
Total votes: 20

Gian-Carlo Pascutto
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Re: Career and Interests

Post by Gian-Carlo Pascutto » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:11 am

bob wrote: You are thinking with the background of someone interested in computer chess. We represent a miniscule segment of the chess market.
Rybka is very well known Bob, the brand got very strong very fast. Every club chess player I know has at least heard about it.

Vasik's forum alone has 2700 members. How many of the people that buy the engine bother to register an account? Less than 1 in 10 I'd guess.

Gian-Carlo Pascutto
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Re: Career and Interests

Post by Gian-Carlo Pascutto » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:15 am

bob wrote: Has he sold say 10,000 copies? And makes perhaps 50 bucks a copy? Over 4 years now? $125,000 per year, roughly? Not exactly "remarkable".
I don't know how an university professor over there earns but it seems to pay well for you to say it like that :)

From the links posted it would be a top wage to get in the US for someone of his training. So it's pretty obvious he could not "earn 5 times as much" by working a salaried job.

Another point to consider is that he earns (at least) a top US wage, but lives in Poland, which means that expenses are relatively speaking much smaller.

Dr.Ex
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Re: Career and Interests

Post by Dr.Ex » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:20 am

Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
bob wrote: You are thinking with the background of someone interested in computer chess. We represent a miniscule segment of the chess market.
Rybka is very well known Bob, the brand got very strong very fast. Every club chess player I know has at least heard about it.
I guess the number of players who bought Rybka in my club is exactly 1.
Almost all use more or less old versions of Fritz, since it doesn't really make a difference. You hardly will be a stronger chess player OTB if you use Rybka for preparation while many others still use "only" Fritz.
Sometimes Rybka has the better suggestions, sometimes Fritz and very often both suggestions are useless.
In human chess your task is to create opportunities for your opponent to go wrong and avoid mistakes yourself. What does an engine know about it?

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Dr.Wael Deeb
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Re: Career and Interests

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:26 pm

Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
bob wrote: Has he sold say 10,000 copies? And makes perhaps 50 bucks a copy? Over 4 years now? $125,000 per year, roughly? Not exactly "remarkable".
I don't know how an university professor over there earns but it seems to pay well for you to say it like that :)

From the links posted it would be a top wage to get in the US for someone of his training. So it's pretty obvious he could not "earn 5 times as much" by working a salaried job.

Another point to consider is that he earns (at least) a top US wage, but lives in Poland, which means that expenses are relatively speaking much smaller.
True....
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

Milos
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Re: Career and Interests

Post by Milos » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:50 pm

bob wrote:Do you _really_ believe non-tournament players are going to buy Rybka, excepting the small group of computer chess enthusiasts? I'd bet 10K copies is _high_, not low.

The reason those other engines sell is price. Chessmaster has sold more copies of chess programs that everyone else combined, and multiplied by 100x. Because they are dirt cheap and run on cheap hardware.

You think Tommy in the 3rd grade knows anything about Rybka? Or wants a program that completely throttles him with no way to dumb it down satisfactorily?

You are thinking with the background of someone interested in computer chess. We represent a miniscule segment of the chess market.
I might be overly optimistic, you might be overly pessimistic, and the truth is probably in between. :)
What's certain however, is that Vas can live nicely with his income from computer chess, probably with the same standard or even better than he would have, if he went into software industry.
Ah, if only those stubborn ppl from ccc would stop raising those nasty questions... :D

bob
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Re: Career and Interests

Post by bob » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:44 pm

Dr.Ex wrote:
Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
bob wrote: You are thinking with the background of someone interested in computer chess. We represent a miniscule segment of the chess market.
Rybka is very well known Bob, the brand got very strong very fast. Every club chess player I know has at least heard about it.
I guess the number of players who bought Rybka in my club is exactly 1.
Almost all use more or less old versions of Fritz, since it doesn't really make a difference. You hardly will be a stronger chess player OTB if you use Rybka for preparation while many others still use "only" Fritz.
Sometimes Rybka has the better suggestions, sometimes Fritz and very often both suggestions are useless.
In human chess your task is to create opportunities for your opponent to go wrong and avoid mistakes yourself. What does an engine know about it?
This is my finding as well. For one reason why, why do you suppose almost everyone uses GCC under linux, rather than buying the Intel compiler which is significantly better? Keyword = "buy". I don't go out and pay megabucks for commercial-quality software to use in a hobby, price _is_ an object for most. Ten bucks for chessmaster or one hundred bucks plus for Rybka? Not a contest for most.

bob
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Re: Career and Interests

Post by bob » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:46 pm

Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
bob wrote: Has he sold say 10,000 copies? And makes perhaps 50 bucks a copy? Over 4 years now? $125,000 per year, roughly? Not exactly "remarkable".
I don't know how an university professor over there earns but it seems to pay well for you to say it like that :)

From the links posted it would be a top wage to get in the US for someone of his training. So it's pretty obvious he could not "earn 5 times as much" by working a salaried job.

Another point to consider is that he earns (at least) a top US wage, but lives in Poland, which means that expenses are relatively speaking much smaller.
The problem is, the numbers I posted are very optimistic, IMHO. I'd suspect reality to be much lower. And even the optimistic numbers are not gigantic. I had a Ph.D. student leave here 10 years ago and go to work at Microsoft Research making over $150,000.00 per year. With a big signing bonus to boot.

mcostalba
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Re: Career and Interests

Post by mcostalba » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:09 pm

bob wrote: I had a Ph.D. student leave here 10 years ago and go to work at Microsoft Research making over $150,000.00 per year. With a big signing bonus to boot.
Outside of US the reality is very different.

The same student if it was in Europe he could get around $50,000.00 per year if he was very very lucky, but realistically he could get less.

And I even don't mention what the same student could have raised if he choosed to remain in the university as a researcher, in Italy we are talking of the same wage of a worker in an assembly line (is not a joke!).

And I am not talking about average students, but our best people, students that can easily beat hands down _any_ Microsoft $150,000.00 employer.

Nimzovik
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Re: Career and Interests

Post by Nimzovik » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:20 pm

I say 'F'. Like a lot of us chess players he is OCD. :wink:

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Bill Rogers
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Re: Career and Interests

Post by Bill Rogers » Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:58 pm

I think your assumptions is incorrect. A good computer program depending on marketing skills can make you millions in a very short period, just take a look at ChessMaswter.
I spent 15 years working for one ompany as the senior accountant and thus know my way around accounting software. I once head of a man who had written an entire accounting package. It consisted fo many different modules such as ie. Gl, PY, AR, Payroll, inventory, etc.
Each one could be run as a seperate package or all run as a complete accounting package. For a superior accounting package he did not charge very much ie. only $ 695.00 per package. To some this may sound high but believe me for large corporations it is not. His annual sales amounted to about $ 100,000.00 a year and he was quite happy as far as I know.
One day though a large maketing company approached him and promised to make him more money in one year than he had made in the last 10 years if they could have full control of the sales price.
They then went on to advertise the entire package for a low price of $59.00. Needless to say the man made $6,000,000.00 the very first year and then retired. Mass marketing can make miracles happen if done right.
Bill

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