Graham Banks wrote:I wouldn't bother paying for the rental system.
And what would you do with it?
Best,
Alex
Exactly. It's not my interest. My main interest is in using my own computers for engine v engine testing.
It will be a real problem for the testers - how will we get a true rating for the rental model?
The more important question Harvey is how will you know what version of Rybka Vasik is offering you for rent
With his latest actions I won't take his words for granted,,,,
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
bigo wrote:I think this rental Rybka scheme is pure crap. I will no longer buy or support Rybka, especially now that the free stockfish is out. I am no longer in the words of Dr. Deeb a rybka fan boy, I feel betrayed by the Rybka team. The ideal that I have to have n internet connection to use the best rybka and actually have to rent time for astronomical prices, that broke the camels back for me I'm done.
What do _I_ think?
Well, obviously, as I already said, It may devalue greatly, both the online and the personal Rybka, and I probably would do neither, and would feel disappointed.
But all within reason. If Rybka 4 is atleast 150 elo above Rybka 3, then I would get Rybka 4 even if there is an online version. But the online verwsion I would use, only if it is at the very least, but preferably well over 250 more than that Rybka 4 = 400 elo above Rybka 3.
Otherwise I would not be interesed in either.But if it is only Rybka, but not online version, then I would be happy and excited, even with 100 elo increase over Rybka 3. And if not for the recent competition, I would have have been happy with well under that too.
But anyway..... what IS good about an online version? It would be 100% interesting if I would know that there is hardly any combination, however deep and complicated, or positional improvement that is correct, which it would not see.
I am not at all interested in merely something a little better than what I have, or deserve to have at home. Nothing less than 400 elo more than the best of 2010 home chess engines.
Indeed, If I knew in 1997 that I could sit down with Deep Blue, I would have happily paid to borrow it. Now, it is not the same. Home engines beat any human player in a match, and more justifiably than they sometimes did then. But only if it is 400 elo above the tops, then I would estimate that as authoritative about any chess idea, and it might have an aura like deep Blue in 1997.
Also, this is the only justification for the fact that Vas is putting so much energy into it, instead of the personal version. I could then forgive it.
It won't be +400 over the currently available Rybka 3....
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
M ANSARI wrote:
It does seem that Vas is going to concentrate more on the professional chess market. Professional chess players who travel a lot and can't take their desktops with them when they travel might feel the rental Rybka is a good option. For most that are here on these forums that is simply not an application that they want.
Have these guys never heard of Remote Desktop?
Appearantly Vasik didn't Harvey
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
Harvey Williamson wrote:It will be a real problem for the testers - how will we get a true rating for the rental model?
If it is genuinely good, then testers will be allowed to use it free of charge - and given whatever they need for linking to testing software. If it's a crock, they'll be told to pay the same price as everyone else to use it.
Writing is the antidote to confusion.
It's not "how smart you are", it's "how are you smart".
Your brain doesn't work the way you want, so train it!
M ANSARI wrote:But of course the latest innovations that Vas will come up with will remain in the remote version. You can't really blame the guy for trying to secure his code, and at the moment that seems that it is the only way for him to do that.
If he has used other people's code, it would also "secure" him against discovery of this (I'm talking about mathematical software - though it could also possibly apply to chess software as well in theory).
Writing is the antidote to confusion.
It's not "how smart you are", it's "how are you smart".
Your brain doesn't work the way you want, so train it!
M ANSARI wrote:
It does seem that Vas is going to concentrate more on the professional chess market. Professional chess players who travel a lot and can't take their desktops with them when they travel might feel the rental Rybka is a good option. For most that are here on these forums that is simply not an application that they want.
Have these guys never heard of Remote Desktop?
Actually there is an even better and less bandwidth intensive application that has been around for quite some time. It is chessnet or netchess (can't remember exactly) software. You can actually load your engine from anywhere in the world that has internet connectivity as a normal UCI engine. I used it several times to access my big hardware on a laptop. I guess it could be ported to even a mobile phone as all it is handling of information.
M ANSARI wrote:
It does seem that Vas is going to concentrate more on the professional chess market. Professional chess players who travel a lot and can't take their desktops with them when they travel might feel the rental Rybka is a good option. For most that are here on these forums that is simply not an application that they want.
Have these guys never heard of Remote Desktop?
Actually there is an even better and less bandwidth intensive application that has been around for quite some time. It is chessnet or netchess (can't remember exactly) software. You can actually load your engine from anywhere in the world that has internet connectivity as a normal UCI engine. I used it several times to access my big hardware on a laptop. I guess it could be ported to even a mobile phone as all it is handling of information.
I have used netchess also - and i would guess something like this is how you will connect to the rental thing.
M ANSARI wrote:
It does seem that Vas is going to concentrate more on the professional chess market. Professional chess players who travel a lot and can't take their desktops with them when they travel might feel the rental Rybka is a good option. For most that are here on these forums that is simply not an application that they want.
Have these guys never heard of Remote Desktop?
Actually there is an even better and less bandwidth intensive application that has been around for quite some time. It is chessnet or netchess (can't remember exactly) software. You can actually load your engine from anywhere in the world that has internet connectivity as a normal UCI engine. I used it several times to access my big hardware on a laptop. I guess it could be ported to even a mobile phone as all it is handling of information.
I have used netchess also - and i would guess something like this is how you will connect to the rental thing.
Yeah ... but to be honest ... I just can't see this thing fly. Maybe there will be enough professional chess users out there that will get the cheapest package, but chess is such a "cheap" sport for most with very little prize money that for most they would rather stick to the available engines they have on their computer and use that money to buy an upgrade to their desktop or laptops. Also with R3 code out, you can be sure that this will dramatically improve chess engine software and give the cheapest R4 version a run for its money.
There still MIGHT be a way where this thing would fly ... and that would be the implementation of a hardware cards. You could have several of these cards on a single cheap motherboard and someone could rent "a card" instead of some server time. Those cards would be the new Tilera 100 core cards, and their advantage would be dramatic. I could see myself renting one of those, but not some server time with cores that are running at about 2Ghz.
bigo wrote:I think this rental Rybka scheme is pure crap. I will no longer buy or support Rybka, especially now that the free stockfish is out. I am no longer in the words of Dr. Deeb a rybka fan boy, I feel betrayed by the Rybka team. The ideal that I have to have n internet connection to use the best rybka and actually have to rent time for astronomical prices, that broke the camels back for me I'm done.
What do _I_ think?
Well, obviously, as I already said, It may devalue greatly, both the online and the personal Rybka, and I probably would do neither, and would feel disappointed.
But all within reason. If Rybka 4 is atleast 150 elo above Rybka 3, then I would get Rybka 4 even if there is an online version. But the online verwsion I would use, only if it is at the very least, but preferably well over 250 more than that Rybka 4 = 400 elo above Rybka 3.
Otherwise I would not be interesed in either.But if it is only Rybka, but not online version, then I would be happy and excited, even with 100 elo increase over Rybka 3. And if not for the recent competition, I would have have been happy with well under that too.
But anyway..... what IS good about an online version? It would be 100% interesting if I would know that there is hardly any combination, however deep and complicated, or positional improvement that is correct, which it would not see.
I am not at all interested in merely something a little better than what I have, or deserve to have at home. Nothing less than 400 elo more than the best of 2010 home chess engines.
Indeed, If I knew in 1997 that I could sit down with Deep Blue, I would have happily paid to borrow it. Now, it is not the same. Home engines beat any human player in a match, and more justifiably than they sometimes did then. But only if it is 400 elo above the tops, then I would estimate that as authoritative about any chess idea, and it might have an aura like deep Blue in 1997.
Also, this is the only justification for the fact that Vas is putting so much energy into it, instead of the personal version. I could then forgive it.
It won't be +400 over the currently available Rybka 3....
Dr.D
You mean, even the one which may cost $80-$100 per hour to rent, (the top one, according to the video interview)? It would not be 250 elo above the home version at any point?
