Topalov vs Anand Gmae 8

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michiguel
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Re: Topalov vs Anand Gmae 8

Post by michiguel » Tue May 04, 2010 9:45 pm

Terry McCracken wrote:
Milos wrote:Just a comment from http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/wch-g ... more-24905
for Uri and a super club player Sven who laughed at me when I said Topalov missed much stronger move with 40. Kg5
40. Bc5
On Chess.FM Pentala Harikrishna showed the following winning plan: 40. Kg5 Be8 41. Kh6 Kg8 42. Bd4 Bd7 43. g4 Bc6 44. f4 Bd7 45. Be5 Bc6 46. h5 gxh5 47. Kxh5 Kf7 48. Kh6 Kg8? ( it's important to stop white's g-pawn with 48... Be4! 49. b4 Ke8 50. Kg5 Kd7 51. f5 exf5 52. gxf5 h6+ 53. Kf4 Bc2 54. f6 Ke6 55. Ke3 Bg6 56. Kd4 h5 57. Kc5 Kd7 58. Kb6 Kc8 = ) 49. g5 Bd7 50. Bg7 Bc6 51. g6
They both made basic endgame errors, Anand made the last....sigh....
I think Topalov played the best he could.

Miguel

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Re: Topalov vs Anand Gmae 8

Post by Sven » Tue May 04, 2010 10:05 pm

Milos wrote:Just a comment from http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/wch-g ... more-24905
for Uri and a super club player Sven who laughed at me when I said Topalov missed much stronger move with 40. Kg5
40. Bc5
On Chess.FM Pentala Harikrishna showed the following winning plan: 40. Kg5 Be8 41. Kh6 Kg8 42. Bd4 Bd7 43. g4 Bc6 44. f4 Bd7 45. Be5 Bc6 46. h5 gxh5 47. Kxh5 Kf7 48. Kh6 Kg8? ( it's important to stop white's g-pawn with 48... Be4! 49. b4 Ke8 50. Kg5 Kd7 51. f5 exf5 52. gxf5 h6+ 53. Kf4 Bc2 54. f6 Ke6 55. Ke3 Bg6 56. Kd4 h5 57. Kc5 Kd7 58. Kb6 Kc8 = ) 49. g5 Bd7 50. Bg7 Bc6 51. g6
You have quoted an analysis saying that white can only win if black plays 48.Kg8?, otherwise it is still a draw. So 40.Kg5 cannot be a "much stronger move" than the game move 40.Bc5. Kg5 does also not make the position more difficult for black.

The plan presented as "winning plan" does not do much more than transposing nearly into the game position that Anand lost due to Bc6? but as I said, it relies on a bad move 48.Kg8?.

Furthermore, neither did I laugh at you, nor did I comment directly on your proposal 40.Kg5. What you may have in mind was the move Bc2 by Anand that you commented.

I think that my endgame knowledge is a little better than my OTB playing strength, simply resulting from experience and analyzing many endgames. And at least sometimes "super club players" are able to analyze endgames on a better level than trolls.

Sven

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Re: Topalov vs Anand Gmae 8

Post by Houdini » Tue May 04, 2010 11:19 pm

michiguel wrote:Besides, the losing position I saw it long time before when I said that Anand should have played Bd3 many moves ago.
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... =&start=62

Anand should have kept the B in a4 or b5 to have always the alternative to switch it to defend the h7. I cannot understand how Anand did not see this.
Indeed very impressive how you predicted the winning path for white maybe 10 moves before it actually occurred in the game!!
But also an unbelievable blunder by Anand, white had one way to win and the current World Champion manages to fall for it :(.

Robert

Terry McCracken
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Re: Topalov vs Anand Gmae 8

Post by Terry McCracken » Wed May 05, 2010 12:54 am

michiguel wrote:
Terry McCracken wrote:
Milos wrote:Just a comment from http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/wch-g ... more-24905
for Uri and a super club player Sven who laughed at me when I said Topalov missed much stronger move with 40. Kg5
40. Bc5
On Chess.FM Pentala Harikrishna showed the following winning plan: 40. Kg5 Be8 41. Kh6 Kg8 42. Bd4 Bd7 43. g4 Bc6 44. f4 Bd7 45. Be5 Bc6 46. h5 gxh5 47. Kxh5 Kf7 48. Kh6 Kg8? ( it's important to stop white's g-pawn with 48... Be4! 49. b4 Ke8 50. Kg5 Kd7 51. f5 exf5 52. gxf5 h6+ 53. Kf4 Bc2 54. f6 Ke6 55. Ke3 Bg6 56. Kd4 h5 57. Kc5 Kd7 58. Kb6 Kc8 = ) 49. g5 Bd7 50. Bg7 Bc6 51. g6
They both made basic endgame errors, Anand made the last....sigh....
I think Topalov played the best he could.

Miguel
Maybe, but for certain Anand didn't and I'm very disappointed by this result.

Topalov has a _real_ chance for the title now. I guess you well know whom I'm rooting for...
Terry McCracken

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Re: Topalov vs Anand Gmae 8

Post by Hood » Wed May 05, 2010 3:54 pm

shiv wrote:
With Bd3 instead of Bc6, it does not seem a hard draw. I think Anand relaxed and thought that anything would draw, the Bg7 and g6 plan by Topalov is a nice one. Anand probably underestimated that.
I do not know if after Bc6 was easy draw. The rapid tempo was near, Topalov had much more time and the free choice of manouver. The players were tired after 5-6 games of the play. In practical chess it is enough for a win.

I do not consider Bc6 a blunder, no material, no mate has been lost in 1-2 moves after that. It was the mistake but without mistakes there are no wins.

rgds Hood
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rlsuth
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Re: Topalov vs Anand Gmae 8

Post by rlsuth » Wed May 05, 2010 4:09 pm

Hood wrote: I do not consider Bc6 a blunder, no material, no mate has been lost in 1-2 moves after that. It was the mistake but without mistakes there are no wins.

rgds Hood


Sooo, although the move creates a completely lost position, whereas other moves keep the game drawable, it's not a blunder? ok..............

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