Hello group,
As Rybka 4 is suspected to be a derivative of the chess program Fruit should it be allowed to play at the WCCC?? As only original works are allowed to play at the WCCC.
http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/icga/t ... php?id=209
Cordially,
Sean
Whether Rybka 4 Should Be Allowed To Play At the WCCC?
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Re: Whether Rybka 4 Should Be Allowed To Play At the WCCC?
Where do you get that information? Most of the talk of Rybka having anything to do with Fruit was regarding Rybka 1 beta. Since Rybka 3 has been disassembled and its guts are out for everyone to see, I have not heard that it has anything to do with Fruit. I would guess Rybka 4 is even more of a change. If you are posting this to try to get rally support for one of the recent Rybka 3 clones to get treated as an original engine ... good luck with that.
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Re: Whether Rybka 4 Should Be Allowed To Play At the WCCC?
If it was in Rybka 1, why wouldn't it be in later Rybkas? Vas certainly rewrote the eval and most likely most/all of the search, but other things (move ordering, UCI parser) are likely unchanged.M ANSARI wrote:Where do you get that information? Most of the talk of Rybka having anything to do with Fruit was regarding Rybka 1 beta. Since Rybka 3 has been disassembled and its guts are out for everyone to see, I have not heard that it has anything to do with Fruit. I would guess Rybka 4 is even more of a change. If you are posting this to try to get rally support for one of the recent Rybka 3 clones to get treated as an original engine ... good luck with that.
Interesting how that argument is extremely applicable to the Ippo issue. Even if (big if) Ippolit contained Rybka code in the beginning, it is all gone by now. So by your standards, IvanHoe, Houdini, Fire, etc are completely legal.
Peter
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Re: Whether Rybka 4 Should Be Allowed To Play At the WCCC?
Has Rybka proven that it is original programm ?M ANSARI wrote:Where do you get that information? Most of the talk of Rybka having anything to do with Fruit was regarding Rybka 1 beta. Since Rybka 3 has been disassembled and its guts are out for everyone to see, I have not heard that it has anything to do with Fruit. I would guess Rybka 4 is even more of a change. If you are posting this to try to get rally support for one of the recent Rybka 3 clones to get treated as an original engine ... good luck with that.
Not. The same as Ippos .
Not only Rybka will have that problem, look at the White list on OPEN.
Polish National tragedy in Smoleńsk. President and all delegation murdered or killed.
Cui bono ?
There are not bugs free programs.
There are programs with undiscovered bugs.
Ashes to ashes dust to dust. Alleluia.
Cui bono ?
There are not bugs free programs.
There are programs with undiscovered bugs.
Ashes to ashes dust to dust. Alleluia.
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Re: Whether Rybka 4 Should Be Allowed To Play At the WCCC?
Don't you just love it when the Rybka supporters get all outraged when you point out that, basically,alpha123 wrote:If it was in Rybka 1, why wouldn't it be in later Rybkas? Vas certainly rewrote the eval and most likely most/all of the search, but other things (move ordering, UCI parser) are likely unchanged.M ANSARI wrote:Where do you get that information? Most of the talk of Rybka having anything to do with Fruit was regarding Rybka 1 beta. Since Rybka 3 has been disassembled and its guts are out for everyone to see, I have not heard that it has anything to do with Fruit. I would guess Rybka 4 is even more of a change. If you are posting this to try to get rally support for one of the recent Rybka 3 clones to get treated as an original engine ... good luck with that.
Interesting how that argument is extremely applicable to the Ippo issue. Even if (big if) Ippolit contained Rybka code in the beginning, it is all gone by now. So by your standards, IvanHoe, Houdini, Fire, etc are completely legal.
Peter
Code: Select all
Fruit + bitboards + speed optimization = Rybka 1
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Re: Whether Rybka 4 Should Be Allowed To Play At the WCCC?
Search for the paper published several months ago on this board. The author presented overwhelming evidence thatM ANSARI wrote:Where do you get that information? Most of the talk of Rybka having anything to do with Fruit was regarding Rybka 1 beta. Since Rybka 3 has been disassembled and its guts are out for everyone to see, I have not heard that it has anything to do with Fruit. I would guess Rybka 4 is even more of a change. If you are posting this to try to get rally support for one of the recent Rybka 3 clones to get treated as an original engine ... good luck with that.
Code: Select all
Fruit + bitboards + speed optimimzations = Rybka 1.
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Re: Whether Rybka 4 Should Be Allowed To Play At the WCCC?
I did not vote, because I believe that Rybka is derived from Fruit, but I think it should be allowed in the WCCC. (I'm sympathetic for Vas, for whatever reason.) Fabien didn't seem to care about the Fruit/Rybka thing, but the FSF now owns the Fruit 2.1 copyright, so I guess it's their decision. (I know what that will be.... *preparing for anti-Rybka campaign.....* )
Peter
Peter
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Re: Whether Rybka 4 Should Be Allowed To Play At the WCCC?
http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/icga/f ... s-2010.pdf
18th WORLD COMPUTER CHESS CHAMPIONSHIP TOURNAMENT RULES
2. Each program must be the original work of the entering developers. Programming teams whose code is derived from or including game-playing code written by others must name all other authors, or the source of such code, in the details of their submission form. Programs which are discovered to be close derivatives of others (e.g., by playing nearly all moves the same), may be declared invalid by the Tournament Director after seeking expert advice. For this purpose a listing of all game-related code running on the system must be available on demand to the Tournament Director.
18th WORLD COMPUTER CHESS CHAMPIONSHIP TOURNAMENT RULES
2. Each program must be the original work of the entering developers. Programming teams whose code is derived from or including game-playing code written by others must name all other authors, or the source of such code, in the details of their submission form. Programs which are discovered to be close derivatives of others (e.g., by playing nearly all moves the same), may be declared invalid by the Tournament Director after seeking expert advice. For this purpose a listing of all game-related code running on the system must be available on demand to the Tournament Director.
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Re: Whether Rybka 4 Should Be Allowed To Play At the WCCC?
I still have not seen any evidence that R1 was derived from Fruit...
The link most people seem to make is...
R1 -> Strelka (Vas claimed Strelka was a clone) -> Strelka contained Fruit code -> R1 contains Fruit code...
However my understanding from the likes of DC was that Strelka was a Fruit shell, with some other engine bits plus code from a decompiled Rybka 1. When Vas claimed Strelka was a clone of R1 he did not mean Strelka was an exact copy, which it is not.
Fabien, the author of Fruit saw no issue with Rybka, his view was that some ideas had been taken... and nothing wrong with that.
Also this R1 = a bitboard Fruit rubbish - if it was that simple Rybka would have been caught by all the other Fuit -> bitboard conversions...
Shaun
P.S. Perhaps I have missed* something but I really believe that Rybka was/is less fruity than the now, sadly, common belief.
* any real fact seem swamped but the number of obvious flawed assumptions and miss quotes, recently I even saw a post claiming Vas had admitted that R1 was 20% Fruit code, any attempt to correct the miss quote was burried in other posts.
Please note these are my personal views and I am not speaking on behalf or CCRL.
The link most people seem to make is...
R1 -> Strelka (Vas claimed Strelka was a clone) -> Strelka contained Fruit code -> R1 contains Fruit code...
However my understanding from the likes of DC was that Strelka was a Fruit shell, with some other engine bits plus code from a decompiled Rybka 1. When Vas claimed Strelka was a clone of R1 he did not mean Strelka was an exact copy, which it is not.
Fabien, the author of Fruit saw no issue with Rybka, his view was that some ideas had been taken... and nothing wrong with that.
Also this R1 = a bitboard Fruit rubbish - if it was that simple Rybka would have been caught by all the other Fuit -> bitboard conversions...
Shaun
P.S. Perhaps I have missed* something but I really believe that Rybka was/is less fruity than the now, sadly, common belief.
* any real fact seem swamped but the number of obvious flawed assumptions and miss quotes, recently I even saw a post claiming Vas had admitted that R1 was 20% Fruit code, any attempt to correct the miss quote was burried in other posts.
Please note these are my personal views and I am not speaking on behalf or CCRL.