Important Question about Deep Saros vers. 2.0

[John Conway]

Due to complaints about a possible GPL issue, we elected to remove this thread and save it in the moderator archive if further questions arise. Otherwise, the topic is DOA.

Bob

What is meant by "a POSSIBLE GPL issue"?
Is there any proof? I heard the engine complied with GPL requirements.

[Carotino]

It seems to me that many people are abusing the word "clone" and "GPL". Specifically, Ivanhoe NOT have any type of license, not even the GPL.
If we then see the word "clone", is used in the same way the word "witch" in the Middle Ages. Often, those who use that word with such authority, does not even know programming!

If I use the same parameters that have defined "clone" on this site, I have had some other names. Let's start with some simple names: Stockfish, Houdini, Fire ... But these names were easy ...

We make a great name? I'm playing with fire ... Patience, I will burn!
Drum roll, please.

R... Ry... Rybk... Brrr... I'm getting cold feet!

Some people has SHOWN that this great program was very "inspired" by Fruit 2.1.

But they are all evil! If you would use these parameters, ALL programs would be clones! Who is more, some less...

Aloha!

[mcostalba]

If I use the same parameters that have defined "clone" on this site, I have had some other names. Let's start with some simple names: Stockfish, Houdini, Fire ... But these names were easy ...

Roberto, SF is GPL software derived from Glaurung that is GPL too and is original work until proven the contrary.

In case you used GPL code in your engine you _should_ provide the full sources at the same time you pubish the binary: I hope this is clear for you.

The argument "sources are a mess, I will provide when they'll look nice" it is a very poor argumentation (even not original but copied by Robert Houdart's one BTW) and make the whole GPL licensing stuff even more messy.

Just to be clear, I don't have big interest in looking at your sources because I guess are a patchwork of already released code, so not a big gain looking at them, anyhow I care that GPL disipline is clearly explained and followed because here, as you may have guessed, a lot of people does not have the correct idea of what GPL is and this is a pity and this kind of engine publishings, sorry to say, but does not help clarifying it.

Or you say: "I don't have GPL derived code in my engine so I release the sources if and when I want", or you say "I have some code from a GPL engine inside so I must release the _full_ sources now together with the binaries"...there is no a third way.

[Carotino]

Maybe I was unclear. My fault. In my program there is no GPL code, but only ideas taken from GPL programs. The code is derived from an old version of Ivanhoe, modified to adapt it to these ideas. The only ones who can say something in this regard are the authors of Ivanhoe, in what I used an old version of their program. Ivanhoe however, is not covered by any license and was released for free use.
Of all the programs I have mentioned, only Stockfish is GPL and released the code (on the honor!). Houdini did not publish the code, no ADVERTISING Fire Code, Rybka is a commercial... It obviously has not published the code.

But I see that I have raised more dust and it is best that I retire...

[Carotino]

Attention Marco, I not have appointed Stockfish for controversy... It was just to say, that you can develop a good program starting from another.
The ideas I had in mind related to the positional evaluation, the pawns evaluation ed few other aspects. Had neither the time, nor the inclination (and certainly not the ability!) to develop all the other procedures from scratch. I did not want to reinvent the wheel!
My, can be good or bad (probably bad because of my lack of experience!), but there have been many changes from the original program, you can not talk to clone in this case. Who does it, just proves he does not understand anything about programming.

Good Night.

[Nimzovik]

Hmmmmmm... Deep Saros or deep Sorros?

[Carotino]

Sorros? And what does "Sorros"? I have listed some programs that are derived from others. Derivatives, not clones. Houdini and Fire derived from Ivanhoe, but they are not clones of Ivanhoe. Rybka, in version 1, took "inspiration" from Fruit 2.1 (this was demonstrated by Zack Weneger), but this is not a clone.
In all cases, the authors have made additions, alterations, improvements as well. Nobody has complained about this. Marco took Glaurung and added his ideas, his improvements. But Glaurung was protected by the GPL, so Mark had to respect the license terms by posting the code. Ivanhoe is not protected by any license. It 's just free. Indeed, Houdart Robert has not published the code. Was not obliged to do so. No one can accuse him, of having done something wrong. I do not understand why, in my case, the treatment is different.

[mcostalba]

It was just to say, that you can develop a good program starting from another.
.......
Had neither the time, nor the inclination (and certainly not the ability!) to develop all the other procedures from scratch. I did not want to reinvent the wheel!

I had the same approach when I forked Glaurung to develop Stockfish, and also Joona told that reinventing the wheel was not his target.

I found it more rewarding to work on new ideas (some of them mine some of them took from others) then spend 2 years re-implementing the usual old and tried algorithms and procedures.

Of course this is only my personal opinion and I don't want to say it is better or worst then developing from scratch, it is just what I did prefer.

And now, after some time, looking back I can say it was the right choice for me.

[Carotino]

... And you did a great job, Stockfish is a very good program!

DeepSaros is not yet a mature program. There is still much confusion in its code. The work started as something personal, private... My gym!

Now I'm going to tidy up the code, I'm cleaning. It takes time though, and the programming is not my main job, but just a pastime. Once finished the "spring cleaning", I think I can release the source code.

Roberto Munter