Deep Saros 2.3c5 Free UCI Engine is out

[kranium]

You're senile, you old goat....I never opposed the fact that Rybka 1.0 was based on Fruit!
Your memory, like your manners is a source of aggravation for the rest of us.

by "the rest of us" you mean Conkie and 'whom' may I ask?
Or do mean to suggest that you speak for the forum?

No, sorry to disappoint, clearly you're not the spokesperson, just a simple henchman...

I'll be happy to search some posts pertaining to your position about Rybka/Fruit issue in 2008...
At that point, perhaps you (and everyone else who ridiculed us) will issue a public apology.

Since you're such buddies, maybe you can save face by contacting Conkie to delete the posts?
God knows he's been accused of moderator blackmail, and other such unsavory things before.
(Remember moderator Chris Whittington?...yeah I recently read a very interesting and informative post at Open-Chess forum regarding that subject!)

maybe Conkie is up to it (for old times 'henchman buddy' sake!)

[Terry McCracken]

You're senile, you old goat....I never opposed the fact that Rybka 1.0 was based on Fruit!
Your memory, like your manners is a source of aggravation for the rest of us.

by "the rest of us" you mean Conkie and 'whom' may I ask?
Or do mean to suggest that you speak for the forum?

No, sorry to disappoint, clearly you're not the spokesperson, just a simple henchman...

I'll be happy to search some posts pertaining to your position about Rybka/Fruit issue in 2008...
At that point, perhaps you (and everyone else who ridiculed us) will issue a public apology.

Since you're such buddies, maybe you can save face by contacting Conkie to delete the posts?
God knows he's been accused of moderator blackmail, and other such unsavory things before.
(Remember moderator Chris Whittington?...yeah I recently read a very interesting and informative post at Open-Chess forum regarding that subject!)

maybe Conkie is up to it (for old times 'henchman buddy' sake!)

You search Simple Simon but you won't find any posts arguing against the fact that Vasik used Fruit in Rybka 1.0.

[Graham Banks]

........ you won't find any posts arguing against the fact that Vasik used Fruit in Rybka 1.0.

Did you take a look at Adam's extensive analysis? Quite interesting.

[kranium]

Terry-
You suppported Rybka as follows

Well we all know Vas isn't lying

Vas is not guilty of wrong doing that is clear and this other character (Osipov) is!

but, also posted this:

Bob is a top expert, also Bob started completely from scratch, so did Christophe!
Zach is also giving further evidence in another thread for Vas to answer and Vas alone and Vas should answer!
It's that simple. No one is trying to destroy Rybka or hurt Vas.
But the roots of Rybka are being fully investigated, and this process should be allowed to continue unimpeded.

I realize now you were not against us...probably simply conflicted as were many.
I'm still bitter at the undue ridicule we received, especially now that it's becoming widely accepted.

My apologies,
Norm

[kranium]

Did you take a look at Adam's extensive analysis? Quite interesting.

Yes, I posted a response...
http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38772

Years ago I noticed a amazing correlation between Loop and Fruit according to your CCRL ponderhit statistics.

Adam's data seems to bear that out...

As far as the 1st (top) result...Houdini vs Robbo

There has been quite a bit of compelling evidence gathered, much of which can be found on Open-Chess (Jeremy and BB),...that points to Houdini being derived from Ippolit, my guess would be RobboLito 0.085g3 or perhaps 0.09 (the last and best versions...both extremely strong!, but without SMP)

Of course since Igorrit and IvanHoe have been released, adding SMP to Robbo would not be difficult.
I actually have a workin version of Robbo 0.09 SMP...but it's not interesting for release...
IvanHoe and Fire are now stronger.

I guess this work by Adam just adds fuel to the fire...
Norm

[Graham Banks]

Did you take a look at Adam's extensive analysis? Quite interesting.

Yes, I posted a response...

Years ago I noticed a amazing correlation between Loop and Fruit according to your CCRL ponderhit statistics.

Adam's data seems to bear that out...

As far as the 1st (top) result...Houdini vs Robbo

There has been quite a bit of compelling evidence gathered, much of which can be found on Open-Chess (Jeremy and BB),...that points to Houdini being derived from RobboLito 0.085g3 or perhaps 0.09

I guess this work by Adam just adds fuel to the Fire...(no pun intended)
Norm

Unless I'm misinterpreting it, Adam's data seems to raise some interesting questions over quite a number of engines.

[Terry McCracken]

Terry-
You suppported Rybka as follows

Well we all know Vas isn't lying

Vas is not guilty of wrong doing that is clear and this other character (Osipov) is!

but, also posted this:

Bob is a top expert, also Bob started completely from scratch, so did Christophe!
Zach is also giving further evidence in another thread for Vas to answer and Vas alone and Vas should answer!
It's that simple. No one is trying to destroy Rybka or hurt Vas.
But the roots of Rybka are being fully investigated, and this process should be allowed to continue unimpeded.

I realize now you were not against us...probably simply conflicted as were many.
I'm still bitter at the undue ridicule we received, especially now that it's becoming widely accepted.

My apologies,
Norm

You took some out of context. Means nothing but what you want to put to it. If you were very careful you would see that when I knew Bob, Zach, Christophe et al found plagerism I didn't argue the point.

There were doubts at the very beginning but those doubts were removed fairly quickly.

Anyway you seem to realize I was against coping code etc. and apologised.

I accept your apology.

[kranium]

Terry-
You suppported Rybka as follows

Well we all know Vas isn't lying

Vas is not guilty of wrong doing that is clear and this other character (Osipov) is!

but, also posted this:

Bob is a top expert, also Bob started completely from scratch, so did Christophe!
Zach is also giving further evidence in another thread for Vas to answer and Vas alone and Vas should answer!
It's that simple. No one is trying to destroy Rybka or hurt Vas.
But the roots of Rybka are being fully investigated, and this process should be allowed to continue unimpeded.

I realize now you were not against us...probably simply conflicted as were many.
I'm still bitter at the undue ridicule we received, especially now that it's becoming widely accepted.

My apologies,
Norm

You took some out of context. Means nothing but what you want to put to it. If you were very careful you would see that when I knew Bob, Zach, Christophe et al found plagerism I didn't argue the point.

There were doubts at the very beginning but those doubts were removed fairly quickly.

Anyway you seem to realize I was against coping code etc. and apologised.

I accept your apology.

Unfortunately it was 3 years ago...I guess I am becoming senile.
The more I review it, the more I see you expressed doubt about the idea at the beginning, but were open-minded and supportive later on, unlike many who unrelentingly accused us of a 'smear campaign' and jealously
...(some here are still !).

[Carotino]

I wanted to explain (again!) how did Deep Saros.

You're right about one thing, Norm: DeepSaros is a version of Ivanhoe, just the 999952a, as you wrote. So why change the name? The idea came from a group of friends, fans of chess engines, and were to create a customized version of Ivan, to highlight some of its characteristics and eliminate others. An "independent box" on which to experiment and have fun playing.

Early versions of D.S. had the following characteristics:

- First you have eliminated many options UCI in order to make it easy and quick to use the program.

- Another variation is the correction of some bugs which tended to crash Ivan after a certain number of games. DS is a feature of stability, in tests it has proven more stable than the original program.

- Other changes: the elimination of TB and the addition, in the functions of evaluation, some ideas taken from Fruit and Crafty (in vers. d2, c3 and c4).

- Well, these small changes, while not "epochal"or "brilliant", have perverted what was the original program, in the meantime, the original IvanHoe has evolved, and many new versions have arrived. I basically did what in the world of Open Source is called "fork".

In further versions, D.S. continued to change: it introduced other experiments, while other things will go back ... For example in the evaluation functions: After trying different ideas, I realized that they were not so good, so I removed and returned to the original functions used by Ivan. Future versions will try others! Another thing: After several tests we found that the TB program was playing better (obviously) so have been implemented again. Right now I am studying stockfish and probably will try to put some idea in his DS (ideas, not code: Stockfish is structured differently)...

In practice D.S. is my "toy", which I like to experiment and play, without having to explain anything to anyone.

The site D.S. was born with the sole idea of distributing D.S. to my friends and I did not think that instead, in short, DS become "famous. " After seeing that in many sites we talked about it, I proceeded to explain my intentions (especially with the authors of Ivan, on their official website) and I published the source code for the latest version (Paradoxically, this version is the most "neutral ", because we have decided to remove all the ideas that were not working and start again, with other ideas and other tests!).

Sorry Norm, but hear you, that makes allegations against cloners, is a strange thing... Is like listening to Osama Bin Laden which indictments against terrorism!

It seems to me that in recent times, the sites of chess engines, has created an exaggerated climate of "cleansing", a kind of "religious wars", a ridiculous McCarthyism that is completely out of place, in a "playful room" what should be the chess world.
Ah .. I also wrote that the repeated use of D.S. ensure the regrowth of hair, and that win the lottery... I'll be sued for fraud?

Roberto

[Carotino]

Yeeees!