Where have all the flowers gone?

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Dann Corbit
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Re: Where have all the flowers gone?

Post by Dann Corbit » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:07 pm

George Tsavdaris wrote:
Dann Corbit wrote:
George Tsavdaris wrote:
kranium wrote:Where are all the (oft CCC predicted) extremely strong programs?

Ippolit has been public now since May 2010...more than 1.5 years.
the codebase has been translated into plain/well-known/easy to understand chess programming terms...
(i know because i did it myself...)
Can i ask you to give a link for the code you are referring here in the quote?
If there are several versions with code can you please point me to 1-2 as also to the strongest one?

Thanks.

As for the other things you say i disagree on most but that's irrelevant.
Ippolit is here:
http://ippolit.wikispaces.com/IPPOLIT.C

The strongest ones are the recent Ivanhoe engines found here:
http://www.chesslogik.com/ivanhoe.htm

You will find in all versions (for instance) a serious problem with utilization of SqSet[].
Thanks and thanks for not bashing me for asking such a thing that it was forbidden to me not to knew(see Norman's reply). :D
Norman's got a bit of the "bitter beer face" to everyone and everything in this forum, so I would not take it personally.

Nimzovik
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:08 pm

Re: Where have all the flowers gone?

Post by Nimzovik » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:17 pm

Old Zen proverb: Man throw spear at head - move head!

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kranium
Posts: 1909
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:43 am

Re: Where have all the flowers gone?

Post by kranium » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:18 pm

Dann Corbit wrote:
George Tsavdaris wrote:
Dann Corbit wrote:
George Tsavdaris wrote:
kranium wrote:Where are all the (oft CCC predicted) extremely strong programs?

Ippolit has been public now since May 2010...more than 1.5 years.
the codebase has been translated into plain/well-known/easy to understand chess programming terms...
(i know because i did it myself...)
Can i ask you to give a link for the code you are referring here in the quote?
If there are several versions with code can you please point me to 1-2 as also to the strongest one?

Thanks.

As for the other things you say i disagree on most but that's irrelevant.
Ippolit is here:
http://ippolit.wikispaces.com/IPPOLIT.C

The strongest ones are the recent Ivanhoe engines found here:
http://www.chesslogik.com/ivanhoe.htm

You will find in all versions (for instance) a serious problem with utilization of SqSet[].
Thanks and thanks for not bashing me for asking such a thing that it was forbidden to me not to knew(see Norman's reply). :D
Norman's got a bit of the "bitter beer face" to everyone and everything in this forum, so I would not take it personally.
Belgian beer - the best kind!
a country the size of Massachusetts (my home state) ...
with almost 400 different brews! (all 100's of years old and excellent!)

of course I have a beer face!

and yes I'm definitely 'beer bitter' at the pretentious, arrogant, judgemental, and beligerent attitude of most 'good ol boy' CCC members.

it's ignorant and reprehensible...
many who post here...have no clue.

they post profusely anyway...
just search Graham Banks for example..

Dann Corbit
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Location: Redmond, WA USA
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Re: Where have all the flowers gone?

Post by Dann Corbit » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:29 pm

kranium wrote:
Dann Corbit wrote:
George Tsavdaris wrote:
Dann Corbit wrote:
George Tsavdaris wrote:
kranium wrote:Where are all the (oft CCC predicted) extremely strong programs?

Ippolit has been public now since May 2010...more than 1.5 years.
the codebase has been translated into plain/well-known/easy to understand chess programming terms...
(i know because i did it myself...)
Can i ask you to give a link for the code you are referring here in the quote?
If there are several versions with code can you please point me to 1-2 as also to the strongest one?

Thanks.

As for the other things you say i disagree on most but that's irrelevant.
Ippolit is here:
http://ippolit.wikispaces.com/IPPOLIT.C

The strongest ones are the recent Ivanhoe engines found here:
http://www.chesslogik.com/ivanhoe.htm

You will find in all versions (for instance) a serious problem with utilization of SqSet[].
Thanks and thanks for not bashing me for asking such a thing that it was forbidden to me not to knew(see Norman's reply). :D
Norman's got a bit of the "bitter beer face" to everyone and everything in this forum, so I would not take it personally.
Belgian beer - the best kind!
a country the size of Massachusetts (my home state) ...
with almost 400 different brews! (all 100's of years old and excellent!)
Do they drink it warm in Belgium? I remember my first beer in a German bar was room temperature, and it took a bit of getting used to.
In Turkey, at the corner grocer, they would ask me if I wanted it warm or cold.
of course I have a beer face!

and yes I'm definitely 'beer bitter' at the pretentious, arrogant, judgemental, and beligerent attitude of most 'good ol boy' CCC members.

it's ignorant (see George T's posts above) and reprehensible...
I did not see George to anything untowards in his posts.

Perhaps I did not notice due to being a pretentious, arrogant, judgemental, and beligerent 'good ol boy'.
;-)

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kranium
Posts: 1909
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:43 am

Re: Where have all the flowers gone?

Post by kranium » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:59 pm

Dann Corbit wrote:
kranium wrote:
Dann Corbit wrote:
George Tsavdaris wrote:
Dann Corbit wrote:
George Tsavdaris wrote:
kranium wrote:Where are all the (oft CCC predicted) extremely strong programs?

Ippolit has been public now since May 2010...more than 1.5 years.
the codebase has been translated into plain/well-known/easy to understand chess programming terms...
(i know because i did it myself...)
Can i ask you to give a link for the code you are referring here in the quote?
If there are several versions with code can you please point me to 1-2 as also to the strongest one?

Thanks.

As for the other things you say i disagree on most but that's irrelevant.
Ippolit is here:
http://ippolit.wikispaces.com/IPPOLIT.C

The strongest ones are the recent Ivanhoe engines found here:
http://www.chesslogik.com/ivanhoe.htm

You will find in all versions (for instance) a serious problem with utilization of SqSet[].
Thanks and thanks for not bashing me for asking such a thing that it was forbidden to me not to knew(see Norman's reply). :D
Norman's got a bit of the "bitter beer face" to everyone and everything in this forum, so I would not take it personally.
Belgian beer - the best kind!
a country the size of Massachusetts (my home state) ...
with almost 400 different brews! (all 100's of years old and excellent!)
Do they drink it warm in Belgium? I remember my first beer in a German bar was room temperature, and it took a bit of getting used to.
In Turkey, at the corner grocer, they would ask me if I wanted it warm or cold.
of course I have a beer face!

and yes I'm definitely 'beer bitter' at the pretentious, arrogant, judgemental, and beligerent attitude of most 'good ol boy' CCC members.

it's ignorant (see George T's posts above) and reprehensible...
I did not see George to anything untowards in his posts.

Perhaps I did not notice due to being a pretentious, arrogant, judgemental, and beligerent 'good ol boy'.
;-)
God Damn It - you know you're somehow the exception...
somehow, someway, you always (always!) manage to keep your head above the fray...
don't understand how you do it...i tend to get really pissed!

absolutely deserve an award for that IMHO

Albert Silver
Posts: 2964
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Re: Where have all the flowers gone?

Post by Albert Silver » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:03 pm

jdart wrote:If Stockfish is not strong enough for you, you are a hard man to please.
Don't forget Critter now, and Komodo!
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."

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Matthias Gemuh
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Re: Where have all the flowers gone?

Post by Matthias Gemuh » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:20 pm

Albert Silver wrote:
jdart wrote:If Stockfish is not strong enough for you, you are a hard man to please.
Don't forget Critter now, and Komodo!
And I may soon resume working on BigLion again.
My engine was quite strong till I added knowledge to it.
http://www.chess.hylogic.de

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Graham Banks
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Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:52 am
Location: Auckland, NZ

Re: Where have all the flowers gone?

Post by Graham Banks » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:50 pm

Matthias Gemuh wrote:......And I may soon resume working on BigLion again.
Good! :D
gbanksnz at gmail.com

Milos
Posts: 3988
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:47 am

Re: Where have all the flowers gone?

Post by Milos » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:51 pm

Dann Corbit wrote:You will find in all versions (for instance) a serious problem with utilization of SqSet[].
Ok Dann, how many times I should repeat this. All these array overbounds in array.c are completely irrelevant to program functioning.
They never coz any program crash or instability.
If you don't understand that then there is simply no serious talk about programming with you since these are basic terms.

There are certainly some memory overwrites in the code but they are related to different structure member pointers, they practically appear in any program (no matter how much author thinking of it as bug free) and they are far beyond any stupid MS (or any other) code analysis tool...

Dann Corbit
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Re: Where have all the flowers gone?

Post by Dann Corbit » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:02 am

Milos wrote:
Dann Corbit wrote:You will find in all versions (for instance) a serious problem with utilization of SqSet[].
Ok Dann, how many times I should repeat this. All these array overbounds in array.c are completely irrelevant to program functioning.
They never coz any program crash or instability.
If you don't understand that then there is simply no serious talk about programming with you since these are basic terms.

There are certainly some memory overwrites in the code but they are related to different structure member pointers, they practically appear in any program (no matter how much author thinking of it as bug free) and they are far beyond any stupid MS (or any other) code analysis tool...
As soon as you exceed the bounds of an array in C, the program now exhibits undefined behavior. That means that you have absolutely no idea what the possible effects are upon the program. It could "do what you expect" -- whatever that might be, or it could format your hard disk, or cause demons to fly out of your nose.

The error I pointed out was one of a class of serious errors that occur in the program, which was obviously written by an amateur. I would be astounded if such utter gaffes occur in Rybka itself.

These are the sort of things written by students with no programming knowlege at all. Anyone who has any serious ability as a programmer would immediately repair it.

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