The CB & CCRL monopoly game

[bhandelman]

Why do you mention Chessbase in your subject line? I don't see them mentioned in your post from the other forum.

[AdminX]

Why do you mention Chessbase in your subject line? I don't see them mentioned in your post from the other forum.

I think it is because Harvey Williamson is a Chessbase /Playchess Sysop. Since Harvey has no "online chess platform".

[Albert Silver]

Why do you mention Chessbase in your subject line? I don't see them mentioned in your post from the other forum.

I think it is because Harvey Williamson is a Chessbase /Playchess Sysop. Since Harvey has no "online chess platform".

I don't get the monopoly part either. CB controls their online server Playchess, big deal. So a monopoly of what? Their own product?

[Hood]

In other words CB, allows only its engines to play on Playchess .

It is interesting if it is not breaking an antymonopoly rule ?

[Albert Silver]

In other words CB, allows only its engines to play on Playchess .

It is interesting if it is not breaking an antymonopoly rule ?

That is utter nonsense. There are tons of non-CB engines for one thing (mostly stockfish, but this is one of those fads), and second, it is THEIR product. What part of THEIR product don't you understand?

[AdminX]

Why do you mention Chessbase in your subject line? I don't see them mentioned in your post from the other forum.

I think it is because Harvey Williamson is a Chessbase /Playchess Sysop. Since Harvey has no "online chess platform".

I don't get the monopoly part either. CB controls their online server Playchess, big deal. So a monopoly of what? Their own product?

Unfortunately for Harvey, they don't see Chessbase, they see Harvey speaking for Chessbase and enforcing policy that is not clear as to how clones are defined. After all, the its a Clone because Playchess says its a Clone does not work for allot of their members. As in the quote of Harvey's posted above, does Vas, Fabian, or Bob define what is or is not a clone. Is there a board that decides it, or a public list posted somewhere on a Chessbase website. Even here on CCC there is no agreement. I don't agree with their (Chessbase) engine room policy, so I just choose to watch /play engine games on FICS, too many Rybka vs Rybka games on Playchess for me.

I guess the same can be said of you. They don't see Albert Silver independent writer, they see Albert Silver writer for Chessbase. No insult intended.

[Albert Silver]

Why do you mention Chessbase in your subject line? I don't see them mentioned in your post from the other forum.

I think it is because Harvey Williamson is a Chessbase /Playchess Sysop. Since Harvey has no "online chess platform".

I don't get the monopoly part either. CB controls their online server Playchess, big deal. So a monopoly of what? Their own product?

Unfortunately for Harvey, they don't see Chessbase they see Harvey speaking for Chessbase and enforcing policy that is not clear as to how clones are defined. As in the quote of Harvey's posted above, does Vas, Fabian, or Bob define what is or is not a clone. Is there a board that decides it, or a public list posted somewhere on a Chessbase website. I don't agree with their engine room policy, so I just choose to watch /play engine games on FICS, too many Rybka vs Rybka games on Playchess for me.

I guess the same can be said of you. They don't see Albert Silver independent writer, they see Albert Silver writer for Chessbase. No insult intended.

Well, their prejudices are their problem. I write tournament reports, and the occasional review, and have nothing to do with the company policy. Besides, why would I be insulted? Chessbase News is the most widely read chess news source there is. Nothing insulting in that.

As to the Playchess engine room policy... no idea. Right now I am writing about Wijk aan Zee, so you can see that has zilch to do with any of the rest.

What I write here is related to my passion for computer chess, and of course my extreme seniority, as Ive been a member of CCC since 1996.

[yanquis1972]

What I write here is related to my passion for computer chess, and of course my extreme seniority, as Ive been a member of CCC since 1996.

albert, really...i've read your post years ago & recently & really enjoyed them. you truly do seem to have changed since you started getting paid by CB. i'm glad you landed the gig, i think it's great. but why would you say something like that?? i'm probably a dozen or two years your younger & i signed on to CCC in '98 or '99 or so...wtf does this have to do with anything?? 'extreme seniority'?? you just sound like a douche.

[Albert Silver]

What I write here is related to my passion for computer chess, and of course my extreme seniority, as Ive been a member of CCC since 1996.

albert, really...i've read your post years ago & recently & really enjoyed them. you truly do seem to have changed since you started getting paid by CB. i'm glad you landed the gig, i think it's great. but why would you say something like that?? i'm probably a dozen or two years your younger & i signed on to CCC in '98 or '99 or so...wtf does this have to do with anything?? 'extreme seniority'?? you just sound like a douche.

The implication is that I post on behalf of Chessbase and the point is to say that I have been here since 1996 long before I worked with ChessOk or Chessbase.

[bhandelman]

Unfortunately for Harvey, they don't see Chessbase, they see Harvey speaking for Chessbase and enforcing policy that is not clear as to how clones are defined. After all, the its a Clone because Playchess says its a Clone does not work for allot of their members. As in the quote of Harvey's posted above, does Vas, Fabian, or Bob define what is or is not a clone. Is there a board that decides it, or a public list posted somewhere on a Chessbase website. Even here on CCC there is no agreement. I don't agree with their (Chessbase) engine room policy, so I just choose to watch /play engine games on FICS, too many Rybka vs Rybka games on Playchess for me.

In the original post I thought they meant hiarcs.net regarding Harvey Williamson, since he is an admin there, and since Jeremy named the other two comments by organization.

I just went through the rules, and I don't see Chessbase commenting on so caled clones at all, just pirated software, a policy that is uniform on all chess servers including FICS and ICC. I don't know for sure, because I'm not a sysop and actually let my account expire there because I prefer FICS and ICC, but I have a feeling this is the sysops making their own interpretations of the rules and running with it. Perfectly within their rights, as much as I may disagree with them, but probably not company policy. Again, I have a feeling ChessBase is not spending a lot of time worrying about the engine room and what freeware engines are used there. That to me seemed the reason Jeremy said Harvey and not Playchess. If you read a post on his forum where a chat log is posted (http://open-chess.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1000), it looks pretty clear Harvey is running with his own conspiracy theory on what are clones or not clones and what he chooses to allow on the engine room. He makes comments about how ChessBase hasn't gone after anyone because they don't care:

HarveyWilliamson (To all): what have they stolen from CB - nothing

I think Harvey is as far out there as the people claiming ChessBase and ChessOK are paying off forum members to support Rybka; some of his statements about Houdini have absolutely no basis on fact and seem more about lumping everything together. Harvey makes a few comments that Houdini is just a recompiled Robo/Ippo and that Robert Houdart is a fake name/person. Last I checked, the accusation was that Houdini learned from evaluation in Robo/Ippo and that because they might be clones it was wrong. I disagree with that, as the current threads about the difference between copyright and ideas and all of that point out. However, Harvey Williamson is not ChessBase, I don't believe he has any ties at all to them except being a sysop, and sysops are not employees. Nowhere is there a ChessBase comment in the rules or room information about using derived chess engines, just pirated software.