Manifesto for Ideal Chess Engines Development
---------------------------------------------
In the sprit of honesty, good sportsmanship
and legality of use we declare the following:
* Invent new ideas rather than reuse old ideas
* Implement yourself rather than copy from others
* Give credit rather than taking credit
* Keep secrets rather than share secrets
While there is value in the items on the right
we value the items on the left higher.
Comments?
Draft of Manifesto
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
-
- Posts: 10948
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:21 pm
- Full name: Kai Laskos
Re: Draft of Manifesto
SuneF wrote:Manifesto for Ideal Chess Engines Development
---------------------------------------------
In the sprit of honesty, good sportsmanship
and legality of use we declare the following:
* Invent new ideas rather than reuse old ideas
* Implement yourself rather than copy from others
* Give credit rather than taking credit
* Keep secrets rather than share secrets
While there is value in the items on the right
we value the items on the left higher.
Comments?
Hahahaha, if the science was as you describe CC here, then we would have infant mortality 300/1000 instead of 5/1000, average life-span of 40 years instead of 80. The Earth is flat and the Sun rotates around us. Etc., etc., etc. Do you want to have progress or sub-chimp CC society? Even chimps pass tool use from generation to generation, without asking for credit or keeping secrets.
Kai
-
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:19 am
Re: Draft of Manifesto
"As I describe"?? Look up manifesto firstLaskos wrote:SuneF wrote:Manifesto for Ideal Chess Engines Development
---------------------------------------------
In the sprit of honesty, good sportsmanship
and legality of use we declare the following:
* Invent new ideas rather than reuse old ideas
* Implement yourself rather than copy from others
* Give credit rather than taking credit
* Keep secrets rather than share secrets
While there is value in the items on the right
we value the items on the left higher.
Comments?
Hahahaha, if the science was as you describe CC here, then we would have infant mortality 300/1000 instead of 5/1000, average life-span of 40 years instead of 80. The Earth is flat and the Sun rotates around us. Etc., etc., etc. Do you want to have progress or sub-chimp CC society? Even chimps pass tool use from generation to generation, without asking for credit or keeping secrets.
Kai
Obviously we cannot prevent people from cheating. The latest developments has proven that.
What we can do is set some guide lines for how it ought to be done.
Without some basic rules we have anarchy and no serious developer wants to participate in that. A futile attempt perhaps.
Btw notice how I skillfully avoided the words clone and derivative in the manifesto
-
- Posts: 4607
- Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:33 am
- Location: Regensburg, Germany
- Full name: Guenther Simon
Re: Draft of Manifesto
What a crazy reaction? I am surprised even knowing from whom it comes...Laskos wrote:SuneF wrote:Manifesto for Ideal Chess Engines Development
---------------------------------------------
In the sprit of honesty, good sportsmanship
and legality of use we declare the following:
* Invent new ideas rather than reuse old ideas
* Implement yourself rather than copy from others
* Give credit rather than taking credit
* Keep secrets rather than share secrets
While there is value in the items on the right
we value the items on the left higher.
Comments?
Hahahaha, if the science was as you describe CC here, then we would have infant mortality 300/1000 instead of 5/1000, average life-span of 40 years instead of 80. The Earth is flat and the Sun rotates around us. Etc., etc., etc. Do you want to have progress or sub-chimp CC society? Even chimps pass tool use from generation to generation, without asking for credit or keeping secrets.
Kai
I am still not sure if you are the same Kai Laskos who posted some interesting messages
about music here in the beginning of the lifetime of his account.
It must be some personality hijacking during the recent houbbolito military actions.
=> hint: what has the crappy science anology to do with Sunes post
-
- Posts: 10948
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:21 pm
- Full name: Kai Laskos
Re: Draft of Manifesto
Sorry, for music there are better forums, I am very rigid on this topic. I remember posting at one time when Tord, probably the only one here who understands something about music, had posts on this topic.Guenther wrote:What a crazy reaction? I am surprised even knowing from whom it comes...Laskos wrote:SuneF wrote:Manifesto for Ideal Chess Engines Development
---------------------------------------------
In the sprit of honesty, good sportsmanship
and legality of use we declare the following:
* Invent new ideas rather than reuse old ideas
* Implement yourself rather than copy from others
* Give credit rather than taking credit
* Keep secrets rather than share secrets
While there is value in the items on the right
we value the items on the left higher.
Comments?
Hahahaha, if the science was as you describe CC here, then we would have infant mortality 300/1000 instead of 5/1000, average life-span of 40 years instead of 80. The Earth is flat and the Sun rotates around us. Etc., etc., etc. Do you want to have progress or sub-chimp CC society? Even chimps pass tool use from generation to generation, without asking for credit or keeping secrets.
Kai
I am still not sure if you are the same Kai Laskos who posted some interesting messages
about music here in the beginning of the lifetime of his account.
It must be some personality hijacking during the recent houbbolito military actions.
=> hint: what has the crappy science anology to do with Sunes post
Kai
-
- Posts: 868
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:21 pm
- Location: Nederland
Re: Draft of Manifesto
Aren't you mixing up science with applying science?Laskos wrote:Sorry, for music there are better forums, I am very rigid on this topic. I remember posting at one time when Tord, probably the only one here who understands something about music, had posts on this topic.Guenther wrote:What a crazy reaction? I am surprised even knowing from whom it comes...Laskos wrote:SuneF wrote:Manifesto for Ideal Chess Engines Development
---------------------------------------------
In the sprit of honesty, good sportsmanship
and legality of use we declare the following:
* Invent new ideas rather than reuse old ideas
* Implement yourself rather than copy from others
* Give credit rather than taking credit
* Keep secrets rather than share secrets
While there is value in the items on the right
we value the items on the left higher.
Comments?
Hahahaha, if the science was as you describe CC here, then we would have infant mortality 300/1000 instead of 5/1000, average life-span of 40 years instead of 80. The Earth is flat and the Sun rotates around us. Etc., etc., etc. Do you want to have progress or sub-chimp CC society? Even chimps pass tool use from generation to generation, without asking for credit or keeping secrets.
Kai
I am still not sure if you are the same Kai Laskos who posted some interesting messages
about music here in the beginning of the lifetime of his account.
It must be some personality hijacking during the recent houbbolito military actions.
=> hint: what has the crappy science anology to do with Sunes post
Kai
Best* Invent new ideas rather than reuse old ideas
Fonzy
-
- Posts: 10948
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:21 pm
- Full name: Kai Laskos
Re: Draft of Manifesto
No, I am in theory, I think I don't have to cite from Euclid to Gauss, Rieamnn, Hilbert and further. Only 10-40% of an accepted paper is usually original, but even this part has plenty of reused stuff.F. Bluemers wrote: Aren't you mixing up science with applying science?Best* Invent new ideas rather than reuse old ideas
Fonzy
This "Manifesto" is simply a fall into obscurantism.
Kai
-
- Posts: 1335
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:30 am
- Location: Cabo Frio, Brasil
Re: Draft of Manifesto
What do you think about plagiarism in music? Just curious.
-
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:19 am
Re: Draft of Manifesto
So you prefer copied code of old ideas with an author who takes credit for something he didnt invent.Laskos wrote:
This "Manifesto" is simply a fall into obscurantism.
Kai
And you think following that path will take us out of obscurantism?
I would think most could agree to at least the first three items.
Perhaps the 4th is a bit controversial on its own, but together with the first three it makes sense as a protective measure against copy and reuse.
-
- Posts: 10948
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:21 pm
- Full name: Kai Laskos
Re: Draft of Manifesto
Now, if we take Brahm's 1st symphony (last part) and say that it's a Beethoven derivative, it would be totally wrong. As Brahms said "every idiot can hear this Beethoven theme" (or similar). There is a specific meaning to that theme.PauloSoare wrote:What do you think about plagiarism in music? Just curious.
As for polystylists like Schnittke (died recently), with reusable pieces and rewritten contrapuncti, one has to decide for himself. Who would accuse Prokofiev for his neo-Calssicism? In music nowdays the problem of charlatanry (most minimalists for example) is much more present.
I could write on and on, but this is OT.
Kai