How does Mr. Rajlich know the Ippolit series is Rybka 3?

[De Vos W]

For all of you Chuck Norris, Steven Seagal, ninja, jedi, mambo-jambo, marital arts guys, one nice vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGg_F7s7xg

Any resemblance to Vasik Rajlich (The Swordman) is purely coincidental!

[Tom Barrister]

]


Dont pee on my head and then try to tell me its rainwater. You googled and almost copied word for word what was on the different pages you brought up. You got to go one better than that. I was trying to make peace with you, and the mods can see that. But you have persisted in this course, so tell me where you are and when you want to meet halfway.

If I'd bothered using a search engine, I would have done better than that. You're not the only person who knows anything about martial arts. I could probably tell you things about it that you wouldn't know and couldn't find on the internet. I worked around these people for a good while: something else you'd realize if you knew who I was.

So much for the olive branch. I suppose that a leopard can't change his spots, and I doubt you're capable of being civil to anybody for longer than a day, if that.

[Don]

But the eval is not much changed from Robbo or from R3 in terms of the output, even if the terms were changed from tables to formulae.

Larry,

Let me repeat here what I've just posted in the "which program is best in endgames" thread, in reply to M. Ansadi making a similar claim for end games.

Below 10 end game examples from the recent 40 games TCEC Elite Match. I've selected positionally imbalanced, but not too tactical end game positions in which the evals remain more or less constant for several moves.

Robert,

Stop treating us like we are idiots.

There is nobody who doubts that you made significant improvements to Robbolito and that you are working hard on the evaluation, especially the endings. We also know you scaled the evaluation differently. But showing us a few positions where the scores are a lot of different might convince naive people but it's not going to fool people with half a brain.

I can do this same type of analysis on Komodo vs an identical version of Komodo and it will return different scores and sometimes significantly different scores. In a non-trivial percent of the time it will return different moves. And I can pick out the ones I want to show you.

What is very clear is that your program plays VERY much like all the other Ippolito derivatives. Over time this will change, as you continue to work on the evaluation and diverge from the original code base.

You are doing the same exact thing the Ipolitto guys did. Their "proof" that the program is not a derivative of Rybka is some examples where it plays MUCH better and the fact that it plays stronger. If that is proof, then this same proof could be applied to Rybka 3, right?

If you really want to make your case, publish your source code. You are not going commercial so you have no reason not to, and didn't you say at one point that you intended to?

The 10 positions demonstrate rather convincingly how much Rybka's and Houdini's end game evals are different.

Can you tell us which of the two evals you consider to be based on your evaluation terms?

Robert

[Houdini]

But showing us a few positions where the scores are a lot of different might convince naive people but it's not going to fool people with half a brain.

The point is exactly that I'm not just "showing a few positions" that I would have cherry-picked from a very large number of obscure games.
I'm showing 10 of the 40 games played this week in the very public TCEC match. In fact, I'm showing nearly every game in which a not obviously equal end game has occurred.

Now take a look at the positions, compare the evals, you could even play the full 40 games from the PGN file that is available at the TCEC web site. After that, consider Larry Kaufman's claim that "he recognizes the Rybka 3 eval in Houdini", and LOL.

Please note also that the burden of proof lies with Larry who's repeatedly made the same strong claim without providing any evidence whatsoever.

Robert

[Don]

But showing us a few positions where the scores are a lot of different might convince naive people but it's not going to fool people with half a brain.

The point is exactly that I'm not just "showing a few positions" that I would have cherry-picked from a very large number of obscure games.
I'm showing 10 of the 40 games played this week in the very public TCEC match. In fact, I'm showing nearly every game in which a not obviously equal end game has occurred.

Now take a look at the positions, compare the evals, you could even play the full 40 games from the PGN file that is available at the TCEC web site. After that, consider Larry Kaufman's claim that "he recognizes the Rybka 3 eval in Houdini", and LOL.

Please note also that the burden of proof lies with Larry who's repeatedly made the same strong claim without providing any evidence whatsoever.

I provided strong circumstantial evidence when I created the similarity tester. The only program that matched Robbolito more than your own program is Firebird.

Larry has a strong interest in the playing styles of various programs and he KNOWS how they all play. He constantly pesters me about working with him on the playing style of Komodo, to make it play more moves like humans play.

He also knows that Houdini plays like all the other clones. Houdini is STRONGER than the other derivatives, but that's not the point at all.

I also know that building a strong evaluation function is an extremely difficult art and takes years and you never get it right. You did not just come out of nowhere with a program like Houdini that plays like Robbo without starting with Robbolito's evaluation function. You can try to sell this to someone else, but not me.

Robert

[Houdini]

Don, why don't you let Larry answer the question? After all, he is the one making the claim I'm challenging.
Your point of view on the subject is well known, there's no point in repeating it endlessly.

Robert

[Milos]

I provided strong circumstantial evidence when I created the similarity tester. The only program that matched Robbolito more than your own program is Firebird.

Larry has a strong interest in the playing styles of various programs and he KNOWS how they all play. He constantly pesters me about working with him on the playing style of Komodo, to make it play more moves like humans play.

Would you please stop treating us as idiots.
Your similarity tester is a joke. Larry is a guy that doesn't even understand alpha-beta. Talking about engine playing style is a joke.
Actually most of your posts are a joke.
You are simply jealous since your Komodo is crap compared to Ippolit and even more compared to Houdini. Occam's razor tells us that undoubtedly.

[Don]

Don, why don't you let Larry answer the question? After all, he is the one making the claim I'm challenging.

I'm not stopping him from answering. He can answer whenever he wants or he can choose not to.

Your point of view on the subject is well known, there's no point in repeating it endlessly.

I have mostly refrained from talking about Houdini as you have kept a low profile, but you seem to be getting bolder now so I am less inhibited too.

Robert

[Terry McCracken]

I provided strong circumstantial evidence when I created the similarity tester. The only program that matched Robbolito more than your own program is Firebird.

Larry has a strong interest in the playing styles of various programs and he KNOWS how they all play. He constantly pesters me about working with him on the playing style of Komodo, to make it play more moves like humans play.

Would you please stop treating us as idiots.
Your similarity tester is a joke. Larry is a guy that doesn't even understand alpha-beta. Talking about engine playing style is a joke.
Actually most of your posts are a joke.
You are simply jealous since your Komodo is crap compared to Ippolit and even more compared to Houdini. Occam's razor tells us that undoubtedly.

More ad hominen attacks on both Don and Larry! Wow, you're really something aren't you....venom and libel is your trade and I think it's insane you're allowed to keep this up shitmeister.

[slobo]

I provided strong circumstantial evidence when I created the similarity tester. The only program that matched Robbolito more than your own program is Firebird.

Larry has a strong interest in the playing styles of various programs and he KNOWS how they all play. He constantly pesters me about working with him on the playing style of Komodo, to make it play more moves like humans play.

Would you please stop treating us as idiots.
Your similarity tester is a joke. Larry is a guy that doesn't even understand alpha-beta. Talking about engine playing style is a joke.
Actually most of your posts are a joke.
You are simply jealous since your Komodo is crap compared to Ippolit and even more compared to Houdini. Occam's razor tells us that undoubtedly.

More ad hominen attacks on both Don and Larry! Wow, you're really something aren't you....venom and libel is your trade and I think it's insane you're allowed to keep this up shitmeister.

ad hominem, McCracken, not ad hominen.

Besides, you should know that telling a truth is not the same as an ad hominem attack. You should first ask him if he could prove his words before your start your ad hominem attacks.

Perhaps you are still enough young to learn new things.