Hi Charlie,frcha wrote:No.Albert Silver wrote:This is one I can never understand as it is based on the argument "two wrongs make a right". The people who argue it almost all base it on "since Rybka is a ripoff, this one is ok", or... two wrongs make a right. Just my 2 cents.Don wrote:3. Ippolito is heavily based on reverse enginnering Rybka 3 and so what?
"heavily based on reverse engineering" software is released all the time in both open source and commercial realms.
The only reason this is even controversial is because the author of the chess engine gets credit for an innovation.
IN private companies, its more like --here : rev. eng software and make program exactly like it.
programmer: ok, boss.
-- no glory - the owner of the company might get sued if found out -- but it still happens.
This whole concept of "right" and "wrong" is new when applied to software piracy as well. I know many otherwise ethical people who have absolutely no problem with downloading illegal pirated software, mp3 etc.
HOWEVER -- rev. engineering is not always illegal unlike software piracy.
I believe credit must be given to those who innovate -- that is Robert deserves credit for making # 1engine but not for anything near a 100% original engine.
With Ippolit I am curious how much is innovation and how much is Rybka 3 rev. eng?
I could care less what people think is right and wrong -- unless we want to start World war 3 on these forums.
I'm glad you brought that up. I came really close to also raising this issue in my original post but I did not want to complicate it and I feel that it's a lesser issue than the primary one. Of course to some people (espeically program authors like myself) it might be considered a more important issue, but it's more a less a subset (in my view) of the original issue.
So one variation of the "so what" point of view might be, "it's ok to base a work heavily on the work of others as long as you don't take credit for someone elses ideas."
That is not my point of view, but it's a possible variation.
I go back to what Mark Uniacke was talking about. To me it's like a kick in the gut to a programmer who worked hard for years on a program when suddenly multiple "authors" who have never previously released a chess program suddenly move to the top by stealing the work of others and avoiding all the hard work.
To give an example, I think I could take one of the best clones and add 50 ELO to it within a few weeks. I think any top 10 programmer could do this. In fact it's clear that any really GOOD programmer can do this, as is witnesses by Houdini and others.
We need to address this issue because it's a matter of whether we want diversity or not. Do we really want a dozen incestuous programs that are basically alike give or take 50 ELO or do we want a variety of programs with different playing styles and strengths?