TalkChess.com

geots wrote:You three please get together and take care of this. Then for me the bell will have rung on the last round. There are people who are too biased and will never accept what they dont believe. That is of no interest to me. Any programmer who says he is guilty even if found innocent- I dont have the time for. Im putting my money on you 3.


All the Best,

You are _never_ found "innocent" in court. You are found "not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" which is a far different thing than "innocent."

Murderers go free due to the inadmissibility of certain evidence that would easily convince a jury of guilt. But sometimes a technicality causes a guilty person to go free. And _very_ much less frequently, causes an innocent person to be imprisoned..

bob wrote:

geots wrote:I will put the 3 people's views I would respect the most. You can have your judges- I will take these 3. I would put Christopher Conkie, Jim Ablett and Dann Corbit together in a room as the jury. Give them 60 days to come back with a decision on Whether Vas violated GPL, whether he broke any laws, or was he ethical or not in anything he did concerning his program Rybka. Is he guilty of anything at all? When they come back and give me their verdict, either way I'm satisfied with their decision. I know they have no biases whatever, and they have the knowledge and character to deal with this probem to my satsifaction. And they have my respect. When they come back with a decision, no more ifs, ands or buts. I will have found out all I need to know, and the book will be closed.

I don't see how that can work. You need, at the very least, someone that is both an expert in assembly language programming for X86, and is also an expert in C programming. Because the challenge is going to be to take the Rybka binary and convert it into C so that it can be compared to Fruit...

Bob, you are probably right, but that person or persons- their opinions aren't worth the paper written on if they have already determined guilt. If the persons dont go in with an open mind, giving the guy a chance- they are more worthless than the paper they write on. Guilty when innocent and innnocent when guilty is a sly ploy on your part to be able in the end to say, "I dont care, he was still guilty". Is the system perfect. Trust me, this wont be an O.J. Simpson verdict- and it is true some get away with stuff, and others are wrongly convicted. Most of the innocent that are found guilty have shit for money and have to have an indigent defender. They dont get Jerry Spence, Roy Black, or Jeffery Feiger. But it is a fact that you would never be included in the process. Your bias is the worst i have ever seen. You are a respected programmer, but trust me, there are some just as good or better. I would hate to see you insult their intellegence or character if they came back with no true bill. This is really a sad time in the history of computer chess. It really makes me sick for people - with 90% of those who have told me they know he is guilty because "Bob Hyatt said he was." Tell them to stick their hand on a hot iron, because you told them it wouldnt burn them. That's a stretch from truth- but i sometimes wonder how much.

Christopher Conkie wrote:

geots wrote:

Christopher Conkie wrote:

Dann Corbit wrote:My opinion is no better than anyone else's.

I am also not a legal expert. I could give my feelings and I could give my opinion. I could say whether I liked something or not. But without a legal basis, what value is that.

I see no way out of the black hole.

True. However, I do see a way out on an individual basis. One can choose to not entertain what one knows is wrong. Personal choice in other words.

Then do this for me Chris. If you are absolutely sure you can give me a verdict on the legal issues, GPL violations, or anything ethical or unethical he did, lets go over it. In other words, just pm me and break things down in a sort of laymans terms i can understand. Then it will be on an individual basis- between only you and me. But be 100% sure. I cant ask for better than that. (I know you 3 could do this- not a doubt in my mind. But i can understand also why you might not want this decision on your shoulders. I know its a really touchy situation.) But thats where you are at your best. Not a doubt in my mind.

I like Dann do not know the legal situation. Even then it would depend on which country. The concise distilled version is this.....

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... 51&t=38007

Chris

CALL ME ON THE DAMN PHONE- REVERSE THE CHARGES IF YOU ARE BROKE. i DONT CARE HOW YOU DO IT, BUT JUST DO IT, DAMMIT.

I picked the best 3 possible, and its not out of the realm for them to ask another expert or 2 to help. Hell, you 3 can pick 5 more to help. I dont give a shit. If no one else on this forum liked that, i couldnt care less. But all i can do is what i did. Reach out to the people i respect and trust the most. You 3 have the ball in your hands, and my trust.

geots wrote:I will put the 3 people's views I would respect the most. You can have your judges- I will take these 3. I would put Christopher Conkie, Jim Ablett and Dann Corbit together in a room as the jury. Give them 60 days to come back with a decision on Whether Vas violated GPL, whether he broke any laws, or was he ethical or not in anything he did concerning his program Rybka. Is he guilty of anything at all? When they come back and give me their verdict, either way I'm satisfied with their decision. I know they have no biases whatever, and they have the knowledge and character to deal with this probem to my satsifaction. And they have my respect. When they come back with a decision, no more ifs, ands or buts. I will have found out all I need to know, and the book will be closed.

OK, but who cares about what you would do?
Could you explain, please: Who do you think you are?

geots wrote:Bob, you are probably right, but that person or persons- their opinions aren't worth the paper written on if they have already determined guilt. If the persons dont go in with an open mind, giving the guy a chance- they are more worthless than the paper they write on.

If a juror walked into the courtroom having decided the defendant was guilty before hearing the evidence, that would clearly be inappropriate. Bob appears to have drawn a strong conclusion based on the evidence, which is not the same thing. It's not like a juror prejudging the case - more like a juror forcefully arguing his viewpoint with the other 11 once the evidence has been put before them.

geots wrote:

Christopher Conkie wrote:

geots wrote:

Christopher Conkie wrote:

Dann Corbit wrote:My opinion is no better than anyone else's.

I am also not a legal expert. I could give my feelings and I could give my opinion. I could say whether I liked something or not. But without a legal basis, what value is that.

I see no way out of the black hole.

True. However, I do see a way out on an individual basis. One can choose to not entertain what one knows is wrong. Personal choice in other words.

Then do this for me Chris. If you are absolutely sure you can give me a verdict on the legal issues, GPL violations, or anything ethical or unethical he did, lets go over it. In other words, just pm me and break things down in a sort of laymans terms i can understand. Then it will be on an individual basis- between only you and me. But be 100% sure. I cant ask for better than that. (I know you 3 could do this- not a doubt in my mind. But i can understand also why you might not want this decision on your shoulders. I know its a really touchy situation.) But thats where you are at your best. Not a doubt in my mind.

I like Dann do not know the legal situation. Even then it would depend on which country. The concise distilled version is this.....

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... 51&t=38007

Chris

CALL ME ON THE DAMN PHONE- REVERSE THE CHARGES IF YOU ARE BROKE. i DONT CARE HOW YOU DO IT, BUT JUST DO IT, DAMMIT.

Hehe.... The answer is above George. It's the only answer there is. lol Reverse the charges? Whatever next........

.......maybe a new keyboard to get that caps lock key fixed. If you are broke I can buy you one? Hmmmmm?



Chris

Ant_Gugdin wrote:

geots wrote:Bob, you are probably right, but that person or persons- their opinions aren't worth the paper written on if they have already determined guilt. If the persons dont go in with an open mind, giving the guy a chance- they are more worthless than the paper they write on.

If a juror walked into the courtroom having decided the defendant was guilty before hearing the evidence, that would clearly be inappropriate. Bob appears to have drawn a strong conclusion based on the evidence, which is not the same thing. It's not like a juror prejudging the case - more like a juror forcefully arguing his viewpoint with the other 11 once the evidence has been put before them.

In a normal situation, you would be correct. But what if one of the jurors had been one of the most vocal and is ready to hang the defendant before he walks into the courtroom and will listen to nothing with an open mind. Bob is smart, no doubt, but you have to realize there are others as smart, and some smarter. And if he doesnt care what any of them say, and doesnt even listen- thinking this mission was given to him by God, I sure as hell dont want him on my jury.

No Malice toward you and I enjoy your threads, All the Best,

geots wrote:I will put the 3 people's views I would respect the most. You can have your judges- I will take these 3. I would put Christopher Conkie, Jim Ablett and Dann Corbit together in a room as the jury. Give them 60 days to come back with a decision on Whether Vas violated GPL, whether he broke any laws, or was he ethical or not in anything he did concerning his program Rybka. Is he guilty of anything at all? When they come back and give me their verdict, either way I'm satisfied with their decision. I know they have no biases whatever, and they have the knowledge and character to deal with this probem to my satsifaction. And they have my respect. When they come back with a decision, no more ifs, ands or buts. I will have found out all I need to know, and the book will be closed.

You're last 2 choices were excellent choices in my opinion. Christopher I think has already made up his mind.

What the hell are you waffling about? Huh?

I could male you a 3000 elo program in a couple of minutes if you like using available source.

One of those minutes would be to think of a name for it..... Give me a moment.....

.....ummmm..... Got it!

How does "f*** All Programmers 1.0" sound? It's got a certain ring to it .....no?

You could enter it in your tournament, and put it in a rating list.

Now don't say I'm not generous......

Wink

Gruss

Chris

One other thing- everyone has to realize the jury is not going to come from this little forum. They will be picked from MIT, Stanford, the Silicon Valley. I got a guy i know and grew up with who has his own consulting company- and he is it. He solved problems for Mobil Oil that MIT couldnt handle. He pulls in about 8 million a year. You think anyone wants to tangle with him. They may think they do until he speaks. He is also a 2000 rated chess player. These are the kind of people all over the country that will be on a jury. No one representing Vas is going to be silly enough to just take all the jurors off this insignificant forum. And yes, I saw the guys tax returns. Engineer, degree in computer sciense. Im just trying to point out this aint going to be like you think.