Dann Corbit wrote:
It's another way of putting forth the position:
"The ends justify the means."
IOW: "Here we have this nifty new, high powered chess engine. Who cares how it got here!"
Yet another paraphrasal:
"Cheating, lying, unethical progress is still progress. As long as I get to use it, who cares how it came about."
Tragically, some forms of education are actually a fool's errand for this reason:
(Proverbs 9:7-9) 7 He that is correcting the ridiculer is taking to himself dishonor, and he that is giving a reproof to someone wicked—a defect in him. 8 Do not reprove a ridiculer, that he may not hate you. Give a reproof to a wise person and he will love you. 9 Give to a wise person and he will become still wiser. Impart knowledge to someone righteous and he will increase in learning.
I can see a great deal of wisdom in that, people don't want to hear they are doing something wrong and they DO hate anyone telling them so. However I can also see that I've been wrong to push this like I have been - in some sense I have made a fool out of myself - it's pretty silly when you know that you are not going to change anyones mind and yet you keep running your mouth! Everyone knows how I feel so I don't think I need to say it over and over again.
I find the above useful when someone corrects me. Even more so, this one:
(Ecclesiastes 7:9) 9 Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones.
I think that those two pithy sayings tell us a lot about ourselves when interacting with others.
Sometimes, of course, it is simply irresistable, despite the valuable country saying, "You can't push a rope."
SuneF wrote:I don't actually own any chessbase engines, I've never even played with Rybka except for the first free one.
Sure you don't. And I do own a singing frog.
You cannot imagine there are people that have no Chessbase products?
I never touched a Chessbase product in my life. I don't even have the free Rybka. The only commercial engine I have is Cyclone2009, because its author sent me a free copy for testing. But I have not much use for it, as it is way too strong, and trounces every other engine I have.
Well, Houdini would not stand much of a chance against Cyclone, as it would already forfeit on the first move of every game. It does not know how to play Xiangqi very well...
bob wrote:
Obviously, with Vas, anything is possible, based on past actions. But holding back something on a new release? That is the kind of thing that can backfire and lose you a lot of business.
I am just guessing here, but I think he was committed legally to providing an upgrade but his real interest was in cluster Rybka. Of course I might be totally wrong about that, but it's true, it seems likely that he might have held something back. I had heard that he indeed planned to hold it back but I don't remember where I hear that and it might just be a rumor.
I get a bit aggravated at the video game market. For example, one favorite of mine is Call of Duty (black ops). Sells for 60 bucks and up depending on which version you buy. Then 3 months later, they add 4 new maps for about 15 bucks. Then 3 months later... And if you don't get the new maps, online play becomes problematic. I'd rather be told "OK, 120 bucks will get the current version + 4 map packs, one every 3 months." That's honesty. I'd be very unhappy if I bought a new version (say black ops after playing every other version from Call of duty 4 onward) and found that black ops offered very little new material over the last modern warefare 2. When one spends money, one expects to obtain some value for that money. To hold part back so that you can then release (and charge for) an update in a few months is borderline dishonest.
Isn't it often the case with processor chips that that different versions of the same chip have nothing missing over the other versions, but it's just disabled? I know that some of the old pentiums had the floating point circuits, but the less expensive version just had this disabled.
I suppose you could do that with chess programs. You could have a 3300 ELO program with various enhancement disabled. (Komodo has dead code lurking in there, but it's usually not something that helps the program and it's probably compiled away.)
Don
The chip issue is significantly different. It was cheaper to fab chips (you are probably talking about the 486 and 486sx here) with FPUs that were intentionally disabled than it was to have two separate FAB lines. Perhaps a better example is the infamous "deep" concept. Where the parallel version of a program is more expensive than the sequential version, when they are almost certainly produced from the same source code...
SuneF wrote:I don't actually own any chessbase engines, I've never even played with Rybka except for the first free one.
Sure you don't. And I do own a singing frog.
You cannot imagine there are people that have no Chessbase products?
I never touched a Chessbase product in my life. I don't even have the free Rybka. The only commercial engine I have is Cyclone2009, because its author sent me a free copy for testing. But I have not much use for it, as it is way too strong, and trounces every other engine I have.
I'll raise the ante just a bit in that I don't even have a windows box. Everything I use is linux-only. Which excludes chessbase, although I would not buy a chess engine anyway.
Dann Corbit wrote:
It's another way of putting forth the position:
"The ends justify the means."
IOW: "Here we have this nifty new, high powered chess engine. Who cares how it got here!"
Yet another paraphrasal:
"Cheating, lying, unethical progress is still progress. As long as I get to use it, who cares how it came about."
Tragically, some forms of education are actually a fool's errand for this reason:
(Proverbs 9:7-9) 7 He that is correcting the ridiculer is taking to himself dishonor, and he that is giving a reproof to someone wicked—a defect in him. 8 Do not reprove a ridiculer, that he may not hate you. Give a reproof to a wise person and he will love you. 9 Give to a wise person and he will become still wiser. Impart knowledge to someone righteous and he will increase in learning.
I can see a great deal of wisdom in that, people don't want to hear they are doing something wrong and they DO hate anyone telling them so. However I can also see that I've been wrong to push this like I have been - in some sense I have made a fool out of myself - it's pretty silly when you know that you are not going to change anyones mind and yet you keep running your mouth! Everyone knows how I feel so I don't think I need to say it over and over again.
I find the above useful when someone corrects me. Even more so, this one:
(Ecclesiastes 7:9) 9 Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones.
I think that those two pithy sayings tell us a lot about ourselves when interacting with others.
Sometimes, of course, it is simply irresistable, despite the valuable country saying, "You can't push a rope."
I never heard that one, but it's a good one!
Unfortunately, it is not always true. Last week, I could have pushed my dog's outside rope easily if I wanted to. It had gotten waterlogged from the snow, and then froze and stayed frozen for several days... Quite easy to push it. Dog did not particularly think it was funny, however...
SuneF wrote:I don't actually own any chessbase engines, I've never even played with Rybka except for the first free one.
Sure you don't. And I do own a singing frog.
You cannot imagine there are people that have no Chessbase products?
I never touched a Chessbase product in my life. I don't even have the free Rybka. The only commercial engine I have is Cyclone2009, because its author sent me a free copy for testing. But I have not much use for it, as it is way too strong, and trounces every other engine I have.
I'll raise the ante just a bit in that I don't even have a windows box. Everything I use is linux-only. Which excludes chessbase, although I would not buy a chess engine anyway.
Until very recently I never had a windows box either. However I broke down and bought windows 7 and installed it on my laptop so that I could debug and troubleshoot windows issues. It is trivial to install Linux over windows, the installer puts them side by side and does all the work for you - so it's still primarily a Linux box but I can boot into windows on the rare occasion that it is helpful.
Believe me, it hurt me deep inside to pay Microsoft so much money for this albatross when you can get something so much better for free.
SuneF wrote:I don't actually own any chessbase engines, I've never even played with Rybka except for the first free one.
Sure you don't. And I do own a singing frog.
You cannot imagine there are people that have no Chessbase products?
I never touched a Chessbase product in my life. I don't even have the free Rybka. The only commercial engine I have is Cyclone2009, because its author sent me a free copy for testing. But I have not much use for it, as it is way too strong, and trounces every other engine I have.
I'll raise the ante just a bit in that I don't even have a windows box. Everything I use is linux-only. Which excludes chessbase, although I would not buy a chess engine anyway.
Until very recently I never had a windows box either. However I broke down and bought windows 7 and installed it on my laptop so that I could debug and troubleshoot windows issues. It is trivial to install Linux over windows, the installer puts them side by side and does all the work for you - so it's still primarily a Linux box but I can boot into windows on the rare occasion that it is helpful.
Believe me, it hurt me deep inside to pay Microsoft so much money for this albatross when you can get something so much better for free.
I dual-booted for a few years, because I get so many MS word documents from on-campus departments. But with open office working so well, I completely quit. My current laptop is a 64 gig SSD based system, and I did not want to give up any of that very fast disk space for windows... made me throw up just thinking about it... We need a WA group sort of like alcoholics anonymous, then I could have by 5 year "windows free" chip on my office bulletin board.
SuneF wrote:I don't actually own any chessbase engines, I've never even played with Rybka except for the first free one.
Sure you don't. And I do own a singing frog.
You cannot imagine there are people that have no Chessbase products?
I never touched a Chessbase product in my life. I don't even have the free Rybka. The only commercial engine I have is Cyclone2009, because its author sent me a free copy for testing. But I have not much use for it, as it is way too strong, and trounces every other engine I have.
I'll raise the ante just a bit in that I don't even have a windows box. Everything I use is linux-only. Which excludes chessbase, although I would not buy a chess engine anyway.
And no need to buy them. The first three best ones (at least) are free.
"Well, I´m just a soul whose intentions are good,
Oh Lord, please don´t let me be misunderstood."
SuneF wrote:I don't actually own any chessbase engines, I've never even played with Rybka except for the first free one.
Sure you don't. And I do own a singing frog.
You cannot imagine there are people that have no Chessbase products?
I never touched a Chessbase product in my life. I don't even have the free Rybka. The only commercial engine I have is Cyclone2009, because its author sent me a free copy for testing. But I have not much use for it, as it is way too strong, and trounces every other engine I have.
I'll raise the ante just a bit in that I don't even have a windows box. Everything I use is linux-only. Which excludes chessbase, although I would not buy a chess engine anyway.
Until very recently I never had a windows box either. However I broke down and bought windows 7 and installed it on my laptop so that I could debug and troubleshoot windows issues. It is trivial to install Linux over windows, the installer puts them side by side and does all the work for you - so it's still primarily a Linux box but I can boot into windows on the rare occasion that it is helpful.
Believe me, it hurt me deep inside to pay Microsoft so much money for this albatross when you can get something so much better for free.
Of course, you´re right. That´s just what we say: why to pay Mr Rybka so much money "when you can get something so much better for free".
"Well, I´m just a soul whose intentions are good,
Oh Lord, please don´t let me be misunderstood."
Last week, I could have pushed my dog's outside rope easily if I wanted to. It had gotten waterlogged from the snow, and then froze and stayed frozen for several days... Quite easy to push it. Dog did not particularly think it was funny, however...