Previous World Champion Engine Authors Speak Out...

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Steve B
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Previous World Champion Engine Authors Speak Out...

Post by Steve B » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:14 pm

And Sign The OPEN letter to the ICGA President

http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4038

excluding the Engine Author under examination .. we have all but one World Champion engine author since 1992 signing the letter
it should be remembered that these men were fierce competitors for many years ..so seeing them all agree to the notion that Rybka is an unauthorized Fruit derivative is quite astonishing and remarkable

Of course many other highly respected and talented Engine authors also signed the letter..some of whom might have been World Champions themselves if not losing to the engine in question or deciding not to even compete entirely in the ICGA World Championships given the participation of the allegedly illegally derived engine

Bob Hyatt ..a World Champion author himself of course did not sign as he is on the panel invested with making a determination on the derivative issue

i think this is unprecedented in the history of competitive sport Regards
Steve

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AdminX
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Re: Pervious World Champion Engine Authors Speak Out...

Post by AdminX » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:19 pm

Wow, yes Steve I agree!
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
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Roger Brown
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Re: Pervious World Champion Engine Authors Speak Out...

Post by Roger Brown » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:35 pm

Steve B wrote:And Sign The OPEN letter to the ICGA President

http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4038

excluding the Engine Author under examination .. we have all but one World Champion engine author since 1992 signing the letter
it should be remembered that these men were fierce competitors for many years ..so seeing them all agree to the notion that Rybka is an authorized Fruit derivative is quite astonishing and remarkable

Of course many other highly respected and talented Engine authors also signed the letter..some of whom might have been World Champions themselves if not losing to the engine in question or deciding not to even compete entirely in the ICGA World Championships given the participation of the allegedly illegally derived engine

Bob Hyatt ..a World Champion author himself of course did not sign as he is on the panel invested with making a determination on the derivative issue

i think this is unprecedented in the history of competitive sport Regards
Steve


Mouth open in total shock.

Later.

zullil
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Re: Pervious World Champion Engine Authors Speak Out...

Post by zullil » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:51 pm

Steve B wrote:... that Rybka is an authorized Fruit derivative is quite astonishing and remarkable
You must mean "unauthorized."

Steve B
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Re: Pervious World Champion Engine Authors Speak Out...

Post by Steve B » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:25 pm

zullil wrote:
Steve B wrote:... that Rybka is an authorized Fruit derivative is quite astonishing and remarkable
You must mean "unauthorized."
Dang Typos
i also spelled the word Previous wrong in the thread title
hopefully a mod can edit the post for me?
Sigh Regards
Steve

Tom Barrister
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Re: Pervious World Champion Engine Authors Speak Out...

Post by Tom Barrister » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:27 pm

Steve B wrote: i also spelled the word Previous wrong in the thread title
I like "pervious" better.

So we have the authors of: Fruit, Hiarcs, Junior, Rebel, Shredder, Spike, Stockfish, Zappa and probably others I didn't recognize all sign this letter, which would imply that those on the list who now have closed-source engines are willing to submit their source code to the tribunal for examination.

Of course, one wouldn't expect Mr. Rajlich to join this list, since he's the target of the investigation.

I may have missed them, but I don't see the authors of some of the other top-rated closed-source engines (i.e. Fritz, Houdini, Naum) on the list. Some might wonder if these authors have been contacted, and if so, why they declined to sign the letter.
This production is being brought to you by Rybka: "The engine made from scratch.™"

Albert Silver
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Re: Pervious World Champion Engine Authors Speak Out...

Post by Albert Silver » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:28 pm

Steve B wrote:And Sign The OPEN letter to the ICGA President

http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4038

excluding the Engine Author under examination .. we have all but one World Champion engine author since 1992 signing the letter
it should be remembered that these men were fierce competitors for many years ..so seeing them all agree to the notion that Rybka is an authorized Fruit derivative is quite astonishing and remarkable

Of course many other highly respected and talented Engine authors also signed the letter..some of whom might have been World Champions themselves if not losing to the engine in question or deciding not to even compete entirely in the ICGA World Championships given the participation of the allegedly illegally derived engine

Bob Hyatt ..a World Champion author himself of course did not sign as he is on the panel invested with making a determination on the derivative issue

i think this is unprecedented in the history of competitive sport Regards
Steve
I suppose the oddest thing is that none of the authors actually signed the evidence, but rather it is backed by the analysis and conclusions of an unknown: Mark Watkins (who never wrote an engine that I heard of - feel free to correct me). One would think that the basis of such a serious letter would at least be backed by the analysis and conclusions of a well-known authority.
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."

Steve B
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Re: Pervious World Champion Engine Authors Speak Out...

Post by Steve B » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:30 pm

Tom Barrister wrote:
Steve B wrote: i also spelled the word Previous wrong in the thread title
I like "pervious" better.

So we have the authors of: Fruit, Hiarcs, Junior, Rebel, Shredder, Spike, Stockfish, Zappa and probably others I didn't recognize all sign this letter, which would imply that those on the list who now have closed-source engines are willing to submit their source code to the tribunal for examination.

Of course, one wouldn't expect Mr. Rajlich to join this list, since he's the target of the investigation.

I may have missed them, but I don't see the authors of some of the other top-rated closed-source engines (i.e. Fritz, Houdini, Naum) on the list. Some might wonder if these authors have been contacted, and if so, why they declined to sign the letter.
as i mentioned in my lead post
there is only only World Champion author since 1992 that did not sign(excluding the engine author under examination)
that would be Morsch(Fritz)

Steve

Steve B
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Re: Pervious World Champion Engine Authors Speak Out...

Post by Steve B » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:36 pm

Albert Silver wrote:
Steve B wrote:And Sign The OPEN letter to the ICGA President

http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4038

excluding the Engine Author under examination .. we have all but one World Champion engine author since 1992 signing the letter
it should be remembered that these men were fierce competitors for many years ..so seeing them all agree to the notion that Rybka is an authorized Fruit derivative is quite astonishing and remarkable

Of course many other highly respected and talented Engine authors also signed the letter..some of whom might have been World Champions themselves if not losing to the engine in question or deciding not to even compete entirely in the ICGA World Championships given the participation of the allegedly illegally derived engine

Bob Hyatt ..a World Champion author himself of course did not sign as he is on the panel invested with making a determination on the derivative issue

i think this is unprecedented in the history of competitive sport Regards
Steve
I suppose the oddest thing is that none of the authors actually signed the evidence, but rather it is backed by the analysis and conclusions of an unknown: Mark Watkins (who never wrote an engine that I heard of - feel free to correct me). One would think that the basis of such a serious letter would at least be backed by the analysis and conclusions of a well-known authority.
it seems to me that by signing the letter and unequivocally stating that they believe Rybka to be an unauthorized derivative of Rybka ..that they also accept the evidence as offered
dont know to what extent they have reviewed the evidence but the reasonable assumption is they have reviewed it closely
these men ..each and every one of them..have outstanding reputations and would not sign a document like that without considerable fore thought
Steve

Albert Silver
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Re: Pervious World Champion Engine Authors Speak Out...

Post by Albert Silver » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:52 pm

Steve B wrote:
Albert Silver wrote:
Steve B wrote:And Sign The OPEN letter to the ICGA President

http://hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4038

excluding the Engine Author under examination .. we have all but one World Champion engine author since 1992 signing the letter
it should be remembered that these men were fierce competitors for many years ..so seeing them all agree to the notion that Rybka is an authorized Fruit derivative is quite astonishing and remarkable

Of course many other highly respected and talented Engine authors also signed the letter..some of whom might have been World Champions themselves if not losing to the engine in question or deciding not to even compete entirely in the ICGA World Championships given the participation of the allegedly illegally derived engine

Bob Hyatt ..a World Champion author himself of course did not sign as he is on the panel invested with making a determination on the derivative issue

i think this is unprecedented in the history of competitive sport Regards
Steve
I suppose the oddest thing is that none of the authors actually signed the evidence, but rather it is backed by the analysis and conclusions of an unknown: Mark Watkins (who never wrote an engine that I heard of - feel free to correct me). One would think that the basis of such a serious letter would at least be backed by the analysis and conclusions of a well-known authority.
it seems to me that by signing the letter and unequivocally stating that they believe Rybka to be an unauthorized derivative of Rybka ..that they also accept the evidence as offered
dont know to what extent they have reviewed the evidence but the reasonable assumption is they have reviewed it closely
these men ..each and every one of them..have outstanding reputations and would not sign a document like that without considerable fore thought
Steve
I agree, but it doesn't change the fact that it is based on the analysis and conclusions of an unknown. It is a huge sticky point, because no matter how competent Watkins might be, he is not a recognized authority in the field, which means that the data, process, analysis and conclusions would need to be redone by an independent and recognized authority to confirm his paper at the very least.

It is much as if I wrote an opening book claiming to debunk a number of established conclusions on a famous variation, providing all the analysis to prove it. Even if 100% correct, no one can begin to take my word for it, and it would need far more scrutinizing than had the exact same book been signed Kasparov.
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."

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